US Pilots Labor Discussion

[767jetz]

But who did what is a moot point right now. It is irrelevant to where we are now.

No. It's VERY relevant to where you are now because it is your group that drove it here.

How convenient that the people responsible for the position you are in now want everyone to simply forget or ignore who did what.

not a single pilot on the property east or west will give a crap what things were in 2005.

Wrong. I'm sure the pilots of the west will certainly give a crap what things were in 2005. (Any west pilots feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.) So will the APA pilots if you merge. You will not simply sweep your behavior and actions under the rug. And this will be resolved sooner than you think or wish. Mark my words.

 

[767jetz]

How on earth did you expect the two sides to not be polarized by NIC? That single thing brought the east group from simply disgruntled with ALPA from the BK mess to a full blown revolt.

The Nic did not bring this on. It was the East pilot's entitled and megalomaniac union reps with their unreasonable expectations. You wanted YOUR way. You didn't get YOUR way. You had a revolt. You tried to FORCE your way. You STILL haven't gotten YOUR way. On anything. You should stop trying to deflect responsibility for where you are and why. The truth might hurt, but it will set you free.

 

[Keroseneuser]

The Nic did not bring this on. It was the East pilot's entitled and megalomaniac union reps with their unreasonable expectations. You wanted YOUR way. You didn't get YOUR way. You had a revolt. You tried to FORCE your way. You STILL haven't gotten YOUR way. On anything. You should stop trying to deflect responsibility for where you are and why. The truth might hurt, but it will set you free.

For those of us like you and I that were not part of the union leadership. How is this info going to set us free?

This is the situation like it or not. Really the only way out is something that is not on the table right now. Nothing in the works currently on either side will fix the issues. At least no time soon. East wont vote in a NIc without money that Parker is not going to offer and West wont budge from the NIC.

So what is your solution? And I don't mean the standard answer that has been given for the last 4 years on these boards.

 

[Keroseneuser]

BS flag.

How many times do we have to listen to the whining of the east about what happened in 2003/ 2001/ 1999/ 1980 ect.

Why do we still hear about how much you "gave to the company"? It does not matter anymore right. According to your logic.

Thats correct it really does not matter. The only thing that matters is what can get voted in. Not what wishful thinking from one side or the other thinks can get voted in.

Same question to you. Leaving out the standard answers we have seen from the past 4 years. What is your plan to resolve this mess that would have the slightest chance to get voted in looking at the different groups and what they will be looking at in such a vote?

 

[BLT]

Thats correct it really does not matter. The only thing that matters is what can get voted in. Not what wishful thinking from one side or the other thinks can get voted in.

Same question to you. Leaving out the standard answers we have seen from the past 4 years. What is your plan to resolve this mess that would have the slightest chance to get voted in looking at the different groups and what they will be looking at in such a vote?

Nothing will happen until one side accepts the reality of the situation and quits chasing after unicorns and fairies.

 

[Phoenix]

The fact that we are here says it all about the Nic. We are within spitting distance of collectively giving up a Billion dollars over this. That means it was worth it for BOTH sides. It hasn't hurt enough to quit. When it does, we will. Maybe that day was yesterday, but I doubt it.

Yesterday was just another day in paradise.

You wanna see pain? Vote for ALPA to be in charge so they can visit their revenge upon their wayward dues miscreants.

 

[fifidriver]

The Nic did not bring this on. It was the East pilot's entitled and megalomaniac union reps with their unreasonable expectations. You wanted YOUR way. You didn't get YOUR way. You had a revolt. You tried to FORCE your way. You STILL haven't gotten YOUR way. On anything. You should stop trying to deflect responsibility for where you are and why. The truth might hurt, but it will set you free.

I agree 100%. Textbook Narcissism.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Yesterday was just another day in paradise.

You wanna see pain? Vote for ALPA to be in charge so they can visit their revenge upon their wayward dues miscreants.

I don't think ALPA punished the Fedex group for returning.

But to amend my remarks from yesterday:

Until it's known with certainty that we WON'T be merging with AA, why would ALPA or the IBT invest the effort? Like it or not, NIC or not, Cleary or not - USAPA is the only game in town for the duration.

Don't neglect to vote.

 

[Res Judicata]

Thats correct it really does not matter. The only thing that matters is what can get voted in. Not what wishful thinking from one side or the other thinks can get voted in.

Same question to you. Leaving out the standard answers we have seen from the past 4 years. What is your plan to resolve this mess that would have the slightest chance to get voted in looking at the different groups and what they will be looking at in such a vote?

Your problem is this, and by no means are you alone here. The "standard answer" you flippantly blow off as a non starter is the actual LAW. You flatly refuse to wrap your mind around that concept and keep searching for something the West or the Company should give you...despite the fact you have no to rights to, or reasons to expect, anybody to GIVE you anything. You're not entitled to a single letter beyond what Nicalau wrote. It's Final and Binding.

No one out here is jumping up and down for a contract. Quite the opposite, we're enjoying our fleet mins. too much. You want protections for East guys, I'd strongly suggest you negotiate them in the next contract so they don't evaporate with the TA...cause guess where the displaced PHX pilots on the Nic. award are headed if they downsize PHX?

You specifically asked what would others do to "resolve this mess". Here's what I'd do, I'm donating money to AOL to fight this battle in the ONLY arena where we have a shot at a fair game/level playing field. That would be Federal Court. USAPA couldn't have made it any clearer, The West was to be forced into submission and USAPA was supposed to be the Ultimate tool to pound the West into oblivion so you guys could sweep in here...off of furlough....and into a line holding Captain position. Perhaps if USAPA had EVER EVEN ONCE showed an act of Good Faith towards the West some people would be listening to some kind of settlement discussion. Every time USAPA had a choice to make, they not only chose the wrong path, but did so in an astonishingly incompetent manner that nobody ever thought possible before. I'm assuming you voted for USAPA. If that's true, this is ALL your fault and we'll be sitting here quietly on the sidelines to watch you guys self destruct. It's been quite the entertaining show the last few months.

I'm not looking for a contract. I don't care what could get voted in, and I'll do everything in my power to deny you any improvements until you come to the one singular conclusion that any sane person should be able to come to by now. You know what that is. Until then, I'll just smile at USCABA's body twisting in the wind.

 

[nic4us]

For those of us like you and I that were not part of the union leadership. How is this info going to set us free?

This is the situation like it or not. Really the only way out is something that is not on the table right now. Nothing in the works currently on either side will fix the issues. At least no time soon. East wont vote in a NIc without money that Parker is not going to offer and West wont budge from the NIC.

So what is your solution? And I don't mean the standard answer that has been given for the last 4 years on these boards.

I do not think you understand the situation completely.

It is not the "West won't budge from the Nic"......It is the company, usapa and the West that won't budge from the Nic.


That is the situation, regardless of what Bradford and the little lawyer tried to sell the east pilots.


In three months judge Silver might change that reality, but I am thinking she is going to affirm it instead.

 

[fifidriver]

For those of us like you and I that were not part of the union leadership. How is this info going to set us free?

This is the situation like it or not. Really the only way out is something that is not on the table right now. Nothing in the works currently on either side will fix the issues. At least no time soon. East wont vote in a NIc without money that Parker is not going to offer and West wont budge from the NIC.

So what is your solution? And I don't mean the standard answer that has been given for the last 4 years on these boards.

Baby steps. I agree with countless west posters; The Nic or LOA93. There is no compromise or middle ground because the Nic is that compromise. The only way forward, is modification of C&BLs or a new CBA. The idea that a contract with the Nic will not pass is hypothetical only, why not prove it?

 

[Move2CLT]

For those of us like you and I that were not part of the union leadership. How is this info going to set us free?

This is the situation like it or not. Really the only way out is something that is not on the table right now. Nothing in the works currently on either side will fix the issues. At least no time soon. East wont vote in a NIc without money that Parker is not going to offer and West wont budge from the NIC.

So what is your solution? And I don't mean the standard answer that has been given for the last 4 years on these boards.

I wouldn't hold your breath on the east not voting on the Nic thing. I believe they will.

Anx the way out of this situation had always been on the table. You guys just keep pushing it to the side hoping something else comes along.

You've tried to scare us, bankrupt us, and now work with us to get what you wanted. And in all that USAPA has bankrupted itself, is enjoined, and solidified the Nic.

The answer is standard because it's the only one.

 

[Injunction junction]

That's a nice thought, but you have forgotten what you have read here. There is no intention of the west working together on anything. Period. It's burn it down, run out the rats(their term) and then start over. I think that is short sighted as I don't see them having the horsepower to deliver on the starting over part. They are not like the US with a Marshall plan, they are the other part of the pilot group that the company wants to, well you know.

For any east pilot that wants to punish the company, don't. That message at the bottom of Tray's message was not a wink and a nod. They made it clear at the CLT the other day that there is no place for illegal job actions here and the company is on the look out. Don't get fired for something stupid.

I'm taking a break, but don't worry uhaul. I know you will miss me, I'll be back. Family time.

Pi we have already been there with you guys. There was plenty talk prior to mediation, then there was more talk prior to arbitration. Then there was that little gem where Nic gave the sides even MORE time to talk and the east play was DOH all the way. The ruling comes out and you hire Seham to aid you in your quest to avoid our agreement. Then you form usapa to ice that with the promise that it can and will deliver that DOH to the east. Years later all you have done is pay Seham God awful sums of money, given a jr east pilot, Cleary his dream of sitting home making more money than a A330 international captain. Then you manage to get pilots fired with illegal job actions that ultimately got the east a nice injunction.

Dont leave because this story gets even better. Now usapa is broke, its officers have orgies with seaham's staff, you fire seaham then refuse to pay hm for services rendered for which he is suing and will undoubtedly win. The rest of the officers are running for cover, Mowery is the main topic of your bpr these days but funny that there is no talk of better for the pilots here that have both willing an UNWILLINGLY given to usapa! Then the BOMB that Tracy has been sitting on for a while. LOA 93 LOST CAUSE! How much money did usapa waste on that??

The east has done nothing other than refuse to honor its obligations and screw over the west all in the name of DOH. There is now another merger looming and zero dollars have been saved toward that. Pi you keep asking for another bite at the apple and we keep telling you NO WAY. The DJ will then once and for all seal the companies position in this mess placing the west and now management against the east. There is nothing more to discuss Pi as the west will not entertain anything other than full compliance of the award. Now sure you can sit on your hands and try an stall and I can predict the next move. LCC will make a play for AA and that marriage will make triple the money for the investors that AWA and AAA did. The sides will enter talks on seniority and the COMPANY will use the Nic list as ours with APA. Now the new law will prevail in that and when that is said and done everyone will look back and say "WOW that usapa experiment sure was dumb".

Injunction

 

[Move2CLT]

Don't neglect to vote..

...for Cleary!!

Looking forward to another term of his "leadership".

LMAO.

 

[Move2CLT]

Anyone give Swan a call. I wonder if he's hanging from a rope yet.

I heard CIRP is very busy today.