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What amazes me is that it took this arbitrator 2 years to say NO. I sure as hell wouldn't use him for anything else. But, they probably will. Unlike many of us, USAPA is not tired of losing yet.

Congraduations to those pilots who provided the company testimony to use against us. You won.


Driver...

I don't get your statement about the testimony. It seems to me honorable men win every day by living the truth. What would you have had them do? Lie for a scab union that is persuing fradulent grievences as a means to confound an already finished process?

We now have a verifiable paper trail that has caught the usapa grievence chair in an outright lie. I must ask, what else has she lied about?

Well, there is an outstanding win on the TA-10 grievence, yet, no payments to the West have been made. What is that about? usapa does not want the West to have found money to support AOL, maybe?

The West distance learning pay fiasco was summarily dropped in the comapany's favor, while a very similar east overpayment for MDA pilots is still being persued? WTF is that about?

As far as taking 2 years to just say NO, makes perfect sense to me now. It was frustrating to have to be on the West side of the issue, and wait for the answere, but for usapa and the company it makes perfect sense.

Kasher gave both the company and usapa a win. usapa won two years of NOT being called out for being a pseudo-union trying every trick in the book to renege on its obligations. And, the company wins because, well they were right, and they don't have to pay a dime, so the 2 year delay matters not.
 
Aren't you tired of your predicament? USAPA is always dangling that carrot in front of you to keep moving you in their direction. And when you look back, you've gone no where.

Now, it's the 3% carrot. And breeze is dutifully chasing it.

How about you driver? Do you believe in the 3%?

History being an indicator, no I don't. BUT, let's say for argument that USAPA embraces the NIC TODAY. How long before we get a contract? How long before the company rushes out to give us $80+ million dollars for one. I'll tell you when...when they have NO other choice. And that won't be anytime soon.

Driver...
 
There is no 3%. Try and wrap your brain around that fact.

...


There is no expectation for the 3% or any other scraps from the table, and for several years now we all have known the only way to a pay raise is via advancements to line holder, bigger equipment (I know the West can't understand this), or upgrade.

Today is just another day in paradise. Wrap your brain around that. :lol:
 
So I take some time away and now we have the curtain pulled back. What have we found? The true stinking mess our union has been hiding. As I said from the start, the problems that have plagued our group for decades are the people among our very own ranks who think they can force everyone to follow their wishes through intimidation and peer pressure. I say its about time the legal system puts an end to this. What we have now is pretty clear evidence that the end of USAPA is near. The silent majority is starting to speak up. I for one am with JetJok and others who say USAPA has failed miserably. It's time to cut our losses, stop letting the entitled few steer the ship, accept our collective responsibility, and move forward with a contract with the arbitrated award. And lets hope and pray that the west does not seek and win damages that will haunt us for the rest of our careers.

Lets see what a brief look back in recent time brought us:

This about sums it up, after this nobody cares about the west, get it.

This in reference to an inevitable LOA93 win. Oh so confident were you, huh? And you wonder why they gloat now.

The East is getting the LOA 93 pay restoration, and this will be the final and binding reality that pushes the junior Nicolau Fantasy dream off the cliff- the other guys want the money out in PHX. Not only has Cleary end runned Leonidas, he is getting more money to do it.

End run? The only thing going off the cliff are your unrealistic expectations.

Ferguson has been approached by Cleary, and now we have no less than George Mitchell getting involved and Leonidas tells him nothing other than the Nicolau. Brilliant. Who appointed Silver? What party was George Mitchell involved in as a US Senator?

There are others that are getting involved soon, and you better decide to play ball, or the damage is self inflicted.

The junior dream of stepping all over others is done. Unreasonable. Mitchell is NOT going to like it, nor is Silver.

THE WEST has never, ever, been clearer. You can keep believing the pilot/amateur lawyer and AQUAMANS' FANTASY, or get real before it is too late.

What was it that Judge Silver said about the offer of mediating the arbitrated result? Oh yeah... a waste of time.

Wow, sounds like the 9th thought there might be some future MEDIATED talks! Were they on their game. Between spanking Wake, they not only clarified the issue LONG before Silver, and forsaw this new development, whatever it may result in.

Perhaps you need a new crystal ball. The ninth only saw that Addington was not YET ripe. And what's this fascination with spanking? What goes around comes around. Brace! Incoming!

Cleary is doing exactly what the majority wants him to do. His haters continue to take shots at him and he just remains on course. AOL, Compass Correction and Chip's ALPA boys have been in attack mode for the last 2.5 years and this guy emerges stronger than before. Everything is being executed with precision.

Hate

The majority wanted him to lead us here? No. This is not what any of us wanted. The new majority of 51% will have much more to say about how this gets resolved than your old "majority."

This is what you call precision? Good Grief!

Move,

Cleary owns you and your buddies! Cleary owns Parker! Cleary owns Glass! Cleary works for the majority.

Hate

Who owns who now?

Its time for the complacency to end and real men of integrity to take charge.
 
So I take some time away and now we have the curtain pulled back. ...


320 is that you?

The ALPA apologists won't usurp control of the union by using ALPA tactics agains their own fellow pilots. The pilots aren't near as stupid as they were after years of ALPA's heard manipulation, alarmism, and dismissive condescension.
 
He is right on this one. It was taken for all pratical purposes although ALPA had nothing to do with it. Everything done was at the hands of our own pilot group.

Driver...


Bull ####. 13 ALPA lackey's voted to give it away in the middle of the night after promising their membership that we would get to vote on it. Don't even point the finger at "our pilot group".
 
There is no expectation for the 3% or any other scraps from the table, and for several years now we all have known the only way to a pay raise is via advancements to line holder, bigger equipment (I know the West can't understand this), or upgrade.

what about the 85% who won't upgrade or move to a bigger piece of equipment immediately? Can you really defend a union that sacrifices the interests of 85% of the membership (or more) in order to provide for the 15% by abdicating their duty to fairly represent ALL pilots? 85% are due no raises? 85% are due no improvements in vacation? 85% should suffer a little longer under BK work rules? And how about the other pilots in the industry who suffer by struggling against the market rates US east pilots have established?

Please publish some campaign literature that makes such self-serving worthy of my vote.
 
History being an indicator, no I don't. BUT, let's say for argument that USAPA embraces the NIC TODAY. How long before we get a contract? How long before the company rushes out to give us $80+ million dollars for one. I'll tell you when...when they have NO other choice. And that won't be anytime soon.

Driver...
At least with a unified front our chances move from the current timeline of never to a new one of year or two.

Driver, have you asked your reps why they don't use the TA provision of the company paying for 3 east and 3 west negotiators? When USAPA is spending more than its taking in, wouldn't this be prudent? And then your PIC may get more money to continue its investigation.

I can tell you that your chances of doing it alone are zero. The whole east mantra of not needing the west is BS and that's been proven.
 
Something to chew on :


The LOA93 loss basically puts us back where we were in the early part of 2009. In my opinion, USAPA knew the "snapback" argument wouldn't fly from the very start, but pursued it anyway as a way to buy time to pacify its membership and in the hope that the West would go away. The West didn't go away, but other than that the tactic has been wildly successful, buying USAPA almost 3 extra years.

What makes today so different is that USAPA is not any closer to a joint contract now than it was in 2009. In fact, thanks to the illegal job action and the resulting injunction it appears that we are further away from a contract than ever.

The East now knows for sure that the price to pay for separate operations is LOA93. Unless the East pilots and USAPA decide to embrace the Nic, this will be quite a while. Judge Silver's decision will be rendered by April/May 2012 (unless she decides to "pull a Kasher"). As we know, the Appeal to the Ninth Circuit will take about a year. So that will take us to the middle of 2013. Add another nine months for finishing up a contract and voting on it (which considering the speed of negotiations over the last four years seems charitable for USAPA) and the earliest we will see a contract (Nic or otherwise) is early/middle 2014.

That's almost three more years of LOA93. East Age 65 Attrition during that time: 162 total for 2012/2013 and about 18/month for 2014. (Of course, those few East pilots that get to upgrade would still make less in the left seat than Captains at Horizon and Republic and F/Os at DAL and CAL).Maybe some people will take a early retirement, or try to medical out / use up their sick bank, but the last option got a little bit more difficult thanks to the injunction.

The fight to avoid the Nic has been extremely expensive for the East, and the cost will only increase in the years to come, while the chance of success is rapidly declining. So no dancing in the streets for me because of this news, just the hope that maybe some East pilots will see their crusade against the Nic for the fool's errand that it is.

There are about 3800 MIGs. About 1050 of those are West pilots. If an industry standard contract with the Nic was negotiated (and that poor excuse of a "comprehensive proposal" USAPA submitted doesn't qualify as such), and assuming 100% turnout, 1901 "yes" votes would be needed. So if 950 West pilots would vote "yes", 951 out of 2750 East pilots would need to vote "yes" (34.5%). I'd say that's do-able but I doubt that the BPR will allow the NAC to negotiate such a contract, because apparently "Majority Rules" only applies when the East is trying to force a new union on the West.

BTW, Arbitrator Kasher announced his decision in early November. Since then, we've had Cleary publicly proffer mediation, a distinct change in litigative strategy and the resignation of several USAPA "back of the van" members (Kubic / Theuer) and a PHL rep. Coincidence? You decide
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what about the 85% who won't upgrade or move to a bigger piece of equipment immediately? ...

Immediately? Is that the new paradigm? Everything has to be immediate.

What about your beach front house you want today in Hawaii? Try another non sequitur.

Management ain't giving nobody a raise in this economy and there isn't anyone being held hostage. Labor has been milked for concessions for the last two or three decades and you think you are being held hostage though you haven't lost a singe penny. Folks going from reserve to block holder get a 20% raise, from right to left more even more, over age 60 get huge PBGC payouts, and bigger equipment pays more. Seniority progression pays big dividends and everyone gets it!
 
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