US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Phoenix]

Really??
.... The difference between east twisted logic and mine is, we should get the bottom 50% a 30% raise prior to their upgrade, not because of it. ...

You get right on that, will ya. Keep us posted. Oh yeah, I think you opposed LOA 93 and you got that shot down (you did take credit for that, right?) so you do have another strategy to get the FOs a 30% raise, right?

 

[Move2CLT]

So what are you proposing, the top 50% fore go raises and give it all to the bottom 50%?

East on east violence - they're coming apart on the boards as well!!!

 

[Move2CLT]

Swan, MM, and Claxon all MIA.

I'm starting to miss them.

 

[A320 Driver]

East on east violence - they're coming apart on the boards as well!!!

What are you smoking? Make sure that wears off before you go back to work.

 

[767jetz]

Swan, MM, and Claxon all MIA.

I'm starting to miss them.

All their big talk over the years... Claxon, Apollo, Black Swan, Hate2fly, luvthe9, MM, eastus, oldiebutgoodie, and more. Now most have run away with their tail between their legs. They can't even come here and admit they were wrong.

 

[Barrister]

All their big talk over the years... Claxon, Apollo, Black Swan, Hate2fly, luvthe9, MM, eastus, oldiebutgoodie, and more. Now most have run away with their tail between their legs. They can't even come here and admit they were wrong.

Oh yea.....forgot to tell ya......get a 20K raise in 6 months and 24 days courtesy of Uncle Sam
and the USNR.

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[nic4us]

You get right on that, will ya. Keep us posted. Oh yeah, I think you opposed LOA 93 and you got that shot down (you did take credit for that, right?) so you do have another strategy to get the FOs a 30% raise, right?

1. Yes I opposes the LOA93 grievence, because it was a fools errand, waste of time and money. Oh, look, I was right. I believe I posted many times that no matter how it turned out it would not hurt the West, and that usapa was persuing it only as a further means of trying to solidify permanent seperate ops and opposition to a joint contract.

2. I never took credit for getting LOA93 "shot down".

3. I have not looked at f/o payscales, but there was a 25% raise in east captain pay available 3 years ago, this was testified to in Addington by the company, so a 30% raise seems somewhat high, but it is not out of the question in my mind. A 30% raise to the east is only a 14% raise for the West, and we are only talking $162/hr for narrowbody captain.

4. The fact that we would have to hire another 80-100 just to bring east up to West vacation means another 80-100 upgrades, something Kero always seems to miss in his "but the West only has 400 retirements" BS.

5. I have also previously posted that I think it fitting that if we are going to have 20 year f/o's, then there should be 20 year f/o scales.

6. I am absolutely opposed to a "B" scale, which BTW you are on right now, but, I have no problem with a payscale that has 1st yr probationary pay graduating to a significant raise at the 5yr mark, then leveling somewhat until another threshold is reaced, say 10 year, and then again at 15, and top of scale at 20.

7. I said we should be "striving" for getting BOTH the upgrades and a 30% raise. So, if it ain't 30%, but ends up 20-25% and we can get back to profitability and GROWTH with additional hiring, that would be the best way to really get upgrades going again.

8. I was responding to the false claim that the "top 50% have been making captain wages since '85-90". Which was indeed false. As usual, the east forgets that 1/3rd of this pilot group and over 1/3rd of the airplanes are West, and the vast majority of West captains were not even at the 1 year old AWA in '85. So, it is mathematically impossible for the top 50% to have been making captain wages since '85-'90.

 

[Move2CLT]

You are too big of an idiot to see the obvious. Now the vast majority of the East will rely on attrition and moving up
for their raises. In other words...all we got left is our SENIORITY and we will NOT vote for anything with NIC.
COUNT ON IT.

NICDOA
NPJB

Here's your attrition:

That's almost three more years of LOA93. East Age 65 Attrition during that time: 162 total for 2012/2013 and about 18/month for 2014. (Of course, those few East pilots that get to upgrade would still make less in the left seat than Captains at Horizon and Republic and F/Os at DAL and CAL).Maybe some people will take a early retirement, or try to medical out / use up their sick bank, but the last option got a little bit more difficult thanks to the injunction.

And its quite obvious, even on this board, that a contract with the Nic is going to happen.

 

[luvn737s]

Luvn was wrong it is not the 85% who get nothing so the bottom 15% can, it is the top 15% who get nothing.

That is the reason it is a losing strategy, and why east pilots holding out for a slight attrition gain would be ignorant to do so.

FWIW, I didn't parse the group top or bottom. It is actually a thin sliver of the middle that enjoy the lions share of the benefits due to delay, at the expense of the majority who is still compelled to finance a do-nothing union.

 

[Move2CLT]

Oh yea.....forgot to tell ya......get a 20K raise in 6 months and 24 days courtesy of Uncle Sam
and the USNR.

NICDOA
NPJB

Congrats.

What about the other east pilots?

 

[nic4us]

You are too big of an idiot to see the obvious. Now the vast majority of the East will rely on attrition and moving up
for their raises. In other words...all we got left is our SENIORITY and we will NOT vote for anything with NIC.
COUNT ON IT.

NICDOA
NPJB

I see the obvious idiots!!!

So what are you saying Barrister. That now that LOA93 is a bust, the east will rely on attrition to get there raises, as opposed to if usapa had won LOA93, you would have done something different, other that relied on seperate ops and attrition to get bigger raises?

You clowns make no sense whatsoever.

Oh, and the east guys already in the widebodies and happy with their positions on narrowbody will rely on what to get their raises and extra couple of weeks vacation a year?

 

[nic4us]

FWIW, I didn't parse the group top or bottom. It is actually a thin sliver of the middle that enjoy the lions share of the benefits due to delay, at the expense of the majority who is still compelled to finance a do-nothing union.

I got what you were saying, what I am saying is even those 15% are actually hurting themselves, and causing greater irreversable harm to the top of the list.

 

[767jetz]

Here is a flashback in time for your late nigh entertainment:

Black Swan 14 January 2010:

HPDriver said on on Jan14 2010:
With a court's backing, the company can pretty much do what is needed to protect itself.

This is absolutely not true.

Black Swan 14 January 2010:

Bottom line. After all the smoke clears, you are going to discover one final thing. Seniority is NEGOTIATED.

You NEVER got a signed T/A under ALPA. Game over.

You have a NEW bargaining agent. Even Doug told you in his town hall meetings. It is a closed shop, it is called USAPA.Fail to pay your dues, you are terminated.

There is no despair in the East. We are not struggling under LOA 93. We are set, and ready to rumble.

Hate2fly 14 January 2010:

Looking forward to 2010

9th/LOA93 pay restoration/MDA

Hate

Hate2fly 13 July 2010:

Black Swan mentioned who he gets his info from in the last thread...........I always commented how the desert judge should have gone to Penn. The Penn educated man has nailed this thing from the start...........he has an impressive history dealing in this field. Black Swan has mentioned the term "frozen" how it will play a major role in the LOA93 pay restoration. I wonder if that same guy that Black Swan gets his info from on the nic has given him insight on the term frozen. Just wondering!

I have mentioned so many times on this board that this would be a good year for the east and a tough year for the west. The year isn't over yet and we still have LOA93 pay restoration and the MDA issue to look forward to. Recalls are about to happen and new hires will follow. Good times in the east.

Keep the donations coming!

Hate

Black Swan 16 July 2010:

Luvn, from where I sit, there is nothing going on but waiting for USAPA to hand the list to the company and it most likely is going to be a DOH list. And the company is actively negotiating with USAPA. What is going to be your reaction when the list gets handed to the company and it is DOH?

luvthe9 17 July 2010:

Most of the West pilots are embarrassed by these guys they do not represent the West pilots, The West pilots I have spoken to just want to move on they know the NIC is dead and gone, and are not happy with AOl, kind of like our CM ( who nobody likes). we all need to move forward and getv a good contract.

Black Swan 17 July 2010:

They go away very easily if the group that it was arbitrated with was succeeded by another one that had no ties to it , ever. How can you hold USAPA to an integration that it never participated in????You can't. It is that easy.

 

[Move2CLT]

LMAO!!

 

[Barrister]

I see the obvious idiots!!!

So what are you saying Barrister. That now that LOA93 is a bust, the east will rely on attrition to get there raises, as opposed to if usapa had won LOA93, you would have done something different, other that relied on seperate ops and attrition to get bigger raises?

You clowns make no sense whatsoever.

Oh, and the east guys already in the widebodies and happy with their positions on narrowbody will rely on what to get their raises and extra couple of weeks vacation a year?

What are you doing arguing with yourself. An LOA 93 win would have been great but the overriding issue is the hit
the East takes with NIC for NOT THAT MUCH MORE MONEY...are you getting it yet. You can't force us to vote yes with NIC.
Ain't gonna happen. Do you forget who you work for. Parker will put pennies on the table. and let me say it once more for you.
THERE IS NO MIN FLEET IN KIRBY. Parker coud offer 30% raised and with NO min fleet it will be voted down. Don't think parker will park 20-40 more AC if he doesn't have a min fleet to contend with.....OH yea I forgot with NIC none of you Westies give a rats ass how many AC we have.

NICDOA
NPJB