US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Phoenix]

He is right on this one. It was taken for all pratical purposes although ALPA had nothing to do with it. Everything done was at the hands of our own pilot group.

Driver...

Some say that the money was gone when the lackeys voted it away. A formality they say... if that is true and a "yes" or "no" vote didn't really matter one way or the other, then they should have voted "no". But their vote did matter.

If the money was already gone, all they really did is vote to give the company a release from the obligation to pay Billions to the pilots they owed , and also voted to give immunity to the white collars who took it. "our pilot group" did not vote to let people go scott free.

 

[nic4us]

Immediately? Is that the new paradigm? Everything has to be immediate.

What about your beach front house you want today in Hawaii? Try another non sequitur.

Management ain't giving nobody a raise in this economy and there isn't anyone being held hostage. Labor has been milked for concessions for the last two or three decades and you think you are being held hostage though you haven't lost a singe penny. Folks going from reserve to block holder get a 20% raise, from right to left more even more, over age 60 get huge PBGC payouts, and bigger equipment pays more. Seniority progression pays big dividends and everyone gets it!

Everyone except the top who go out the door with no raise for years.


Luvn was wrong it is not the 85% who get nothing so the bottom 15% can, it is the top 15% who get nothing.

That is the reason it is a losing strategy, and why east pilots holding out for a slight attrition gain would be ignorant to do so.

 

[Piedmont1984]

All easties must watch this.

http://www.internettrashtalk.com/shows/2011/12/10/itt-news-interview-with-phx-chairman-david-braid.html

Good video. Braid is a human being it appears. No foam coming out of his mouth or smoke from his ears. He even made sense.
ITT should make more interviews. The lampooning and skits have reached the point of diminishing returns. Have some more serious interviews with west pilots, establish a track record, and some east pilots may consent to be interviewed.

After all, elections are approaching. Hey, free campaign ads.

 

[A320 Driver]

Some say that the money was gone when the lackeys voted it away. A formality they say... if that is true and a "yes" or "no" vote didn't really matter one way or the other, then they should have voted "no". But their vote did matter.

If the money was already gone, all they really did is vote to give the company a release from the obligation to pay Billions to the pilots they owed , and also voted to give immunity to the white collars who took it. "our pilot group" did not vote to let people go scott free.

I totally understand what you are saying, but please consider this:

1. Negotiating committee members went to the MEC in June of 2003 (I hope I have the right year) and told them they had 90 days to freeze the pension or lose it...they did nothing.

2. In December, the ATSB made it a condition of our receiving the loan, our Pilot DB plan not be part of the equation.

3. Around March or April Judge Mitchell said he would not "take" the DB plan, but USAirways could not exit bankruptcy with it intact (what's the difference).

4. We were not given enough time to conduct a formal vote and still meet the deadline placed on the company by the credit card clearing house.

Just sayin...

 

[Move2CLT]

And ALPA National told you to what?

And did you listen?

 

[A320 Driver]

And ALPA National told you to what?

And did you listen?

I wouldn't know...I've never talked to ALPA National.

 

[crazystnic]

Everyone except the top who go out the door with no raise for years.


Luvn was wrong it is not the 85% who get nothing so the bottom 15% can, it is the top 15% who get nothing.

That is the reason it is a losing strategy, and why east pilots holding out for a slight attrition gain would be ignorant to do so.

the top 50 % have been making captain wages since 1985-1990.

I'm sorry but it really is time for the bottom 50% to get the upgrades and get the 30-40 percent pay raise...

 

[jetjok1]

So I take some time away and now we have the curtain pulled back. What have we found? The true stinking mess our union has been hiding. As I said from the start, the problems that have plagued our group for decades are the people among our very own ranks who think they can force everyone to follow their wishes through intimidation and peer pressure. I say its about time the legal system puts an end to this. What we have now is pretty clear evidence that the end of USAPA is near. The silent majority is starting to speak up. I for one am with JetJok and others who say USAPA has failed miserably. It's time to cut our losses, stop letting the entitled few steer the ship, accept our collective responsibility, and move forward with a contract with the arbitrated award. And lets hope and pray that the west does not seek and win damages that will haunt us for the rest of our careers.

Lets see what a brief look back in recent time brought us:



This in reference to an inevitable LOA93 win. Oh so confident were you, huh? And you wonder why they gloat now.



End run? The only thing going off the cliff are your unrealistic expectations.




Good post Eastcoast.......agreed




What was it that Judge Silver said about the offer of mediating the arbitrated result? Oh yeah... a waste of time.



Perhaps you need a new crystal ball. The ninth only saw that Addington was not YET ripe. And what's this fascination with spanking? What goes around comes around. Brace! Incoming!



The majority wanted him to lead us here? No. This is not what any of us wanted. The new majority of 51% will have much more to say about how this gets resolved than your old "majority."

This is what you call precision? Good Grief!



Who owns who now?

Its time for the complacency to end and real men of integrity to take charge.

 

[jetjok1]

So I take some time away and now we have the curtain pulled back. What have we found? The true stinking mess our union has been hiding. As I said from the start, the problems that have plagued our group for decades are the people among our very own ranks who think they can force everyone to follow their wishes through intimidation and peer pressure. I say its about time the legal system puts an end to this. What we have now is pretty clear evidence that the end of USAPA is near. The silent majority is starting to speak up. I for one am with JetJok and others who say USAPA has failed miserably. It's time to cut our losses, stop letting the entitled few steer the ship, accept our collective responsibility, and move forward with a contract with the arbitrated award. And lets hope and pray that the west does not seek and win damages that will haunt us for the rest of our careers.

Lets see what a brief look back in recent time brought us:



This in reference to an inevitable LOA93 win. Oh so confident were you, huh? And you wonder why they gloat now.



End run? The only thing going off the cliff are your unrealistic expectations.



What was it that Judge Silver said about the offer of mediating the arbitrated result? Oh yeah... a waste of time.



Perhaps you need a new crystal ball. The ninth only saw that Addington was not YET ripe. And what's this fascination with spanking? What goes around comes around. Brace! Incoming!



The majority wanted him to lead us here? No. This is not what any of us wanted. The new majority of 51% will have much more to say about how this gets resolved than your old "majority."

This is what you call precision? Good Grief!



Who owns who now?

Its time for the complacency to end and real men of integrity to take charge.

Good post Eastcoast.......agreed

 

[jetjok1]

Bull ####. 13 ALPA lackey's voted to give it away in the middle of the night after promising their membership that we would get to vote on it. Don't even point the finger at "our pilot group".

Yep.........the West has NO clue....... their blanket statements are just wrong.......I just listen and laugh............kids
will be kids

 

[Move2CLT]

I wouldn't know...I've never talked to ALPA National.

No, but your reps did. And they thought they knew better.

 

[Move2CLT]

Yep.........the West has NO clue....... their blanket statements are just wrong.......I just listen and laugh............kids
will be kids

Always a conspiracy.

LMAO.

 

[nic4us]

the top 50 % have been making captain wages since 1985-1990.

I'm sorry but it really is time for the bottom 50% to get the upgrades and get the 30-40 percent pay raise...

Really??

I did not make captain between 85-90, and I am considerably higher than the top 50%.

I totally agree that we should be striving for the bottom 50% to get upgrades and a 30-40% raise. The difference between east twisted logic and mine is, we should get the bottom 50% a 30% raise prior to their upgrade, not because of it. Then when the upgrade comes all the better.

 

[Phoenix]

I totally understand what you are saying, but please consider this:

1. Negotiating committee members went to the MEC in June of 2003 (I hope I have the right year) and told them they had 90 days to freeze the pension or lose it...they did nothing.
..

So how do you point the finger at "our pilot group"?

2. In December, the ATSB made it a condition of our receiving the loan, our Pilot DB plan not be part of the equation.

So lets look at that.. The Government wouldn't give a loan to the company (which would be repaid) unless ALPA surrendered the pilot's claim on the money that was left in the DB, money that would be handed over to the Government (that would never be repaid) and would be used to help buoy an already stressed Government insurance program that unfairly penalizes pilots since they had to retire at age 60.

To recap: Pilots had to surrender their money forever to the Government so the company could have a temporary loan from the Government....?

To add insult to injury, the ATSB seemed to have no caution to withhold the loan conditioned upon barring executive and management bonuses, that were supposedly necessary to retain the outstanding talented personnel, the personnel who's winning management skills landed them at the ATSB looking for a handout.

To recap: the pilots surrendered their money to the government, so the captains who drove the USAir ship aground could be given money from the Government, in order to get bonuses...?

3. Around March or April Judge Mitchell said he would not "take" the DB plan, but USAirways could not exit bankruptcy with it intact (what's the difference).

4. We were not given enough time to conduct a formal vote and still meet the deadline placed on the company by the credit card clearing house.

So ALPA, one of the many creditors that USAir was beholden to, decided to react in the true ALPA passion... print a cute ALPA magazine with "Not one more Nickel" on the cover for an outward show, but in reality resort to capitulation... first hoping to persuade the members to capitulate on their own, but when that is in doubt then capitulate straight away!

ALPA had a perfect record at capitulation for the last twenty years and always pointed the finger at the members saying, "Don't blame us, YOU ARE ALPA.", but they were the ones getting the FPL, caviar, stipends, and resort conferences with bottomless bar tabs.

When your realtor or lawyer screws up and points their finger at you, "Its not my fault, YOU HIRED ME.".. they get fired. Buh Bye.

Now we have ALPA apologists trying to get back in power by screaming, YOU ARE AT FAULT! CAPITULATE TO OUR WAY OF THINKING BEFORE YOU REALLY MAKE IT MUCH WORSE!

Capitulation and self loathing is the ALPA way. I don't think we are ready for that again. "Our pilot group" said no to that.

 

[A320 Driver]

the top 50 % have been making captain wages since 1985-1990.

I'm sorry but it really is time for the bottom 50% to get the upgrades and get the 30-40 percent pay raise...

So what are you proposing, the top 50% fore go raises and give it all to the bottom 50%?