US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Pi brat]

I have run into many east people on other boards and some of those who claim to entitled to much more than they are due. Like these 99 hires on the east that have maybe 1 1/2 LOS before being furloughed and here's the best part, they wouldnt even be employed at LCC today without AWA. Do you know any of these people Pi?? Like Les maybe????

AWA320

Sure do, have had the pleasure of having many of them as my F/Os.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Hmmm someone who writes like me, must be one hell of a great guy but then again all of us in the west are great people! I dont think there is a single west pilot not paying th extortion fess Pi contrary to your comment.

I have run into many east people on other boards and some of those who claim to entitled to much more than they are due. Like these 99 hires on the east that have maybe 1 1/2 LOS before being furloughed and here's the best part, they wouldnt even be employed at LCC today without AWA. Do you know any of these people Pi?? Like Les maybe????

AWA320

What in the world are you bellyaching about now? We can see your sarcasm about the west people, though. You guys had the chance to make this about something other than DOH, but contrary to your lawyer at the time, Mr. Freund, you guys refused.

What a bunch of GOOFS!

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Are you really that stupid? Let's recap, read slow, or maybe get your Mom to help you.

I asked a question to SOMEONE ELSE:

"Are you a leader in AOL? If so, and you are so confident, why not do everything humanly possible to get to DFR II?"

That's a simple question with no other meaning. We all know that a contract with a DOH list in it will be ripe, so WHEN you guys file the next DFR, you won't have to worry about that aspect. Sooooo, if you are really that confident, why not do whatever you can to get to that unquestionable point? Got it?

This what you replied to my question to SOMEONE ELSE:


"The west has nothing to do with usapa getting a contract or not. The east has the majority. The east controls the union. The east has all of the negotiators. The west has no say in this at all.

So if you want a contract and want to get on with it. Call your rep or Cleary or someone and get going. This is all on the east. We are along for the ride."

A lot of blah, blah blah that has nothing to do with the basis of my question. Got it?

You should have stopped after the first sentence. He REALLY IS that stupid.

 

[Pi brat]

Well there you have it and by your own words!! This place will never see crew mixing UNLESS there is another merger which is why Parker wants to get this over with.

AWA320

Not really AWA, that was just a little jab at your "we will not ever fly together", then reversal to, "we will come in on top of you" ranting. I actually think that when this is all over we will be the professionals we are paid to be and get along just fine in the cockpit.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Only if a pilot group believed that DOH was the only fair way to integrate a seniority list.

And only if that pilot group has always integrated its seniority lists by DOH.

With regard to the US East pilots, neither of the above statements is true.

Actually, you are wrong. Empire was the ONLY merger that Piedmont ever did. It SHOULD have gone DOH, except for the greedy SOBs that had to profit at someone else's expense.

ALL mergers prior to the Shuttle merger went pretty much DOH, with C&Rs. ALPA has the merger thing all dicked up because they continue to use idiotic formulas that don't work. ALPA is the ONLY major labor group that has these issues. Wonder why?

 

[fodase]

CV580ETOPS,

I don't know if you are referring to me (Bob Moore) as poor Bob. If that is the case don't worry about "poor Bob" working for less that Air Tran pay. I have my choice of trips #1 on the 75/76 and since my almost retirement in 2007 I have been getting my pbgc monies. Now one thing you should understand is that the maximum payment for pbgc is not in the 40,000's range but can be a good bit higher and mine is higher due to the fact I had 30 years of service when our plan was terminated. I actually sap low to have more days off and it also sends some good trips to those junior to me. Bottom line is I'm working mostly for the medical bennies (my wife has very expensive IV therapy 2 days amonth) and I still like airplanes and those work work around them.

I like your CV580ETOPS name, the CV580 was my first aircraft when I started with Allegheny in "73".

Regards,

Bob Moore

i'm sure your predecessors are very proud of you, happy and willing to be the lowest paid professional pilot flying the north atlantic.

 

[Freebird]

Do you really believe the drivel you just wrote? You won't be doing any of the things you describe over the holidays, more likely you will be railing against the world in a bitter place and dragging your family and friends along for the ride.

Sounds like the actions of the East pilot's complaining about Binding Arbitration. Downtrodden. Bitter.

You will spend the days waxing how your vast experience and dues paying at Tran States and Air Wisconsin have earned you the right to be instantly gratified to what others have worked decades for and sacrificed much to preserve.

How does that differ from a furloughed East pilot "expecting" to come back ahead of active pilots.. The East pilot who thinks he is entitled after spending, what? 1.5 years on property? Hardly a sacrifice.

Of course you couldn't be cognizant of the fact their sacrifices also benefited you because you now work for an airline that is sustainable because of the East Assets. No it will more likely be bar graphs and ratios and arguments of law, spewing contempt and hatred because you didn't get your way and get it right now like a three year old stomping his feet.

Spoken as a true 20+ year AFO. The part about the three year old. Do you mean Usapa?

So save the moral lecturing or take a little yourself because your obsessive posting about morality leaves great doubt that your mind will be on Jesus Christ or troops in the field, more likely bitterly thinking how the East pilot group and the world has denied you instant gratification. For one to speak about truthfulness, its to bad you can't even be honest with yourself.

That's rich. A supporter of Usapa questioning another's honesty and truthfulness. Integrity matters to those who are honest with themselves and others. Usapa is the furthest thing from Integrity. It's "moral" compass is stuck between greed and deceit.

USAPA = The Nic will survive. Get used to it.

 

[Pi brat]

i'm sure your predecessors are very proud of you, happy and willing to be the lowest paid professional pilot flying the north atlantic.

As AWA pilots were the lowest over the Pacific(little while), US, Canada and Mexico for a loooong time.

 

[Freebird]

Not really AWA, that was just a little jab at your "we will not ever fly together", then reversal to, "we will come in on top of you" ranting. I actually think that when this is all over we will be the professionals we are paid to be and get along just fine in the cockpit.

We will continue to be the lowest paid professionals thanks to the powerless Usapa.

USAPA = Horizon and Spirit make more than us. Enjoy.

 

[CallawayGolf]

You know what brings me a little pleasure with your posts? You claim to be a Christian, so I picture when you have answer for what is written in the Book. I think you are in for a surpirse.

You brevity leaves me wondering exactly what point you were trying to make. What I believe (as in know with an absolute certainty) that the Book to which you refer is truth through plenary, verbal inspiration from the Author and Creator of the universe (2 Tim. 3:16-17). Therefore I also know that the following is true:

All have sinned (Rom 3:23)
The wages of sin is death (Rom 6:23)
Christ died for our sins so that we may have eternal life (Rom. 5:8,10; John 3:16)
Those who confess Jesus and believe in their heart that God raise Him from the dead will be saved (Rom 10:9-10)
Faith is a gift from God by His grace (Eph. 2:8-10)
The gospel is the power of salvation to all who believe (Rom 1:16) and the just shall live by faith (Hab 2:4, Rom 1:17)
That the wrath of God is against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth of the knowledge of God (Rom 1:18-32).​

If by calling me a Christian you were referring to these basic truths, then you are correct in that I too affirm them. Thus there is not a surprise waiting for me for I know Him whom I serve. I do know my unrighteous deeds will be burned up with fire, but because of the sacrifice of Christ, my soul will be saved (1 Cor 3:12-15).

If you are like me, then you know these things as well. If you are of those to whom the cross of Christ is foolishness because you are perishing, then feel free to PM me and I’ll gladly answer any questions you may have. I have master’s level seminary training in theology and biblical studies and have taught adult classes on Scripture for nearly 20 years. So if you plan to convince me my faith is flawed – there is zero chance of success. I’m open to any genuine dialog however.

Now, back to the topic at hand…

 

[cactusboy53]

You know what brings me a little pleasure with your posts? You claim to be a Christian, so I picture when you have answer for what is written in the Book. I think you are in for a surprise.

1 Samuel 17:45
David said to the Philistine, “You come against me with sword and spear and javelin, but I come against you in the name of the LORD Almighty, the God of the armies of Israel, whom you have defied. 46 This day the LORD will deliver you into my hands, and I’ll strike you down and cut off your head. This very day I will give the carcasses of the Philistine army to the birds and the wild animals, and the whole world will know that there is a God in Israel. 47 All those gathered here will know that it is not by sword or spear that the LORD saves; for the battle is the LORD’s, and he will give all of you into our hands.”


Proverbs 28:1
The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are bold as a lion.

Proverbs 11:3
The integrity of the upright shall guide them: but the perverseness of transgressors shall destroy them.

Proverbs 11:20
The LORD detests people with crooked hearts, but he delights in those with integrity.

Matthew 6:9-15
9After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

10Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

11Give us this day our daily bread.

12And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

13And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

14For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

15But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Pi, Chrisian's aren't perfect. We are simply forgiven. This event for me has been a very personal test of my faith. I read the anger (both sides) and wonder so many things:

Why can your pilot group as a whole agree that while you don't think the list is fair, it is final and binding? Why is it that you seek to take that seniority list from the pilot group as the only means of recovery in your aviation career? Why is it acceptable for our union to persecute 24+ AWA pilots with two RICO lawsuits (now both LOST), and continue to hold these charges in a different court over the heads of theses pilots? Why is it acceptable to attempt to exclude the west pilots from the profit sharing? Why is it acceptable to scream at the tops of your lungs that it will be unsafe for any east and west crew to fly together, simply because the west pilot group refuses to lay down and let the east pilot group walk all over them?

We are extremely disappointed in the events of the past 2.5 years. Forgiven? Yes (at least by me). Forgotten? Perhaps eventually.

If you are reading this and based in CLT, PHL or DCA....you do have a voice. It is acceptable for you to call & e-mail your representatives (and the USAPA leadership) and voice your opinion and desires.

 

[cleardirect]

You should have stopped after the first sentence. He REALLY IS that stupid.

So there it is. when you lose the argument on the fact you resort to typical east behavior. Start calling names and flinging poo.

 

[Freebird]

Well thanks, but to honest, what position are you in to decide if there if fear amongst the east pilot group? Wouldn't you need to spend some time with them, more than this worthless board or a few hours on the jumpseat? I've spent 24 years, and I'm telling you that maybe, maybe, I've seen the emotion fear in 1 out of 1000.

Frustration is the biggest emotion around here and it is aimed at several different people or groups and there is a wide range of opinions on who was/is causing it. That is pretty clear on here.

Frustration should be squarely aimed as those who sold you down the river. Usapa comes to mind. You are being held hostage. Is it possible you enjoy it? Someday you'll figure it out.

USAPA = Managing Expectations daily. The uncivilized way.

 

[AWA320]

What in the world are you bellyaching about now? We can see your sarcasm about the west people, though. You guys had the chance to make this about something other than DOH, but contrary to your lawyer at the time, Mr. Freund, you guys refused.

What a bunch of GOOFS!

Not true butterball but I dont expect any valid information coming from you.

AWA320

 

[Freebird]

Whats next jiz?Your a pilot that could have taught Lindburgh to fly, a lawyer that should be on the Supreme Court, a AMA leader in psychotherapy. Tell us.

Class act, mikey60.