US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Move2CLT]

Again your logic astounds me. What then pre? What is the plan to clean up after the implosion, or is disaster enough of a win for you?

We're basically unrepresented as is so it wouldn't matter.

There is no plan to clean up. For us, no union is better than a hostile, antagonistic one that sues our pilots and takes our dues money for little to no return.

So yes, its enough of a win.

 

[Pi brat]

We had the votes 6/5.

It was the east guys that bailed. They took their ball and went home.

What? Here is your post #29374:

"Braid, Stockdell and I stuck around for another hour while the Pension Investigation committee dude gave some kind of report outlining how he's basically out of money. He and Strebble started having words and then Cleary jumped in on the side of the PIC dude. You could see the place start to unwind and tensions fray. The three of us just left even though the meeting wasn't adjourned. No point sticking around when the three of us have important things to do like get home to our families, and all they were going to do is sort of babble about some stupid issue that is probably irrelevant."

Were you lying then, or are you lying now?

Gee, someone just called Koontz a scab! Ha! Is this "dude" really a lawyer, or does he have to hip up his updates? 🙂

 

[Pi brat]

dupe

 

[Pi brat]

We're basically unrepresented as is so it wouldn't matter.

There is no plan to clean up. For us, no union is better than a hostile, antagonistic one that sues our pilots and takes our dues money for little to no return.

So yes, its enough of a win.

WINNING!

I'm beginning to believe that like with Charley, drugs must be involved on both sides of this thing sometimes.

Uhaul, finally you have an avatar that fits.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Ok clear, I'm going to take your word for all of this, but I have a question. The USAPA leaders say that the east scope and CofC provisions are much better than the west. If this is true, how will we "pay" to keep them? Should we?

Ya know it's bad when easties start supporting a "cost neutral" contract...

Jim

 

[Phoenix]

The NIC is NOT fair.

But, the NIC is LEGAL.

The NIC was the risk we took when we individually and collectively placed our bets and instructed our FELLOW pilots on the Merger Committee to go out and get DOH and don't come home without it.

And, (unless by some miracle what happens with the MDA DFR affects the legality of the NIC) we will soon find out if we are bound by it.

Ethically, I think we have been bound by it all along... if we are honest with ourselves. But in the passion of the moment, we couldn't resist a possible legal loophole. I went for it as well.

When that loophole finally closes, I intend to move on and let it go. It's the sane and rational thing to do.

And we have other battles to fight.

#### you Brutus. The Nic did not comply with ALPA merger policy, and Prater and everyone else knows it. Prater and the board were too timid to do anything about it, ergo they got shitcanned.

 

[prechilill]

Again your logic astounds me. What then pre? What is the plan to clean up after the implosion, or is disaster enough of a win for you?

Germany cleaned up just fine after the Nazi regime fell. This case won't be much different. You and your union are standing in the way of progress.

 

[cleardirect]

Ok clear, I'm going to take your word for all of this, but I have a question. The USAPA leaders say that the east scope and CofC provisions are much better than the west. If this is true, how will we "pay" to keep them? Should we?

If we were to take your contract, and our contract side by side and cherry pick the best of both there probably would be a billion dollar bill attached to it and I think we can agree that it won't fly. Take disability. I heard from one of your guys that should know that the ideal would be your short term and our long term. Sounds nice, but expensive. Something will have to give. Because of our sick and disability system I have worked to save about a years worth of sick leave. That's a hundred grand plus earned. A west friend of mine has about 30 hrs because he says he doesn't need it. So he has sick vacationed a lot while I didn't. Do I give that up? Does he get left hanging as he enters his 50's? Again, something has to give.


On one issue I will side with the west. We should have had west negotiators on the NAC all the time.

On the scheduling question, USAPA said at the CLT meeting that they accepted PBS. What are the other issues you are looking at there?

The east scope may be better. I have not looked. But the T/A loss made your RJ scope worse. CoC is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Like many of you like to point out. The value of real estate changes. There is not an airline in this country that will pay $330 for 330 captains or $230 for 320 captains. If no one will pay it it is not worth it. Someone that paid $750,000 for a house but can only get someone to offer $400,000. That house is only worth $400,000. Don’t care what it used to be worth. Parker said at one of the crew news, there will be a merger without a CoC or there will be no merger. So what is the CoC worth if no one will pay for it?

This is the misunderstanding from the east. We have a sick bank and STD. They two are different animals. You can have zero sick bank and go out on STD and get paid. Come back, go out again and get paid on STD. No sick bank required.

Again I will bring up value. What is the company willing to pay for your sick bank? Are they going to pay you your rate? No. So you do not have $100,000 worth of sick bank. You can only use your 1000 or 15000 hours legitimately. Unless you would like a fraud investigation. I believe the injunction could have an effect on someone burning sick time too. You are right something has to give. And with this NAC and no west reps it is always the west contract that they give to the company to get for the east.

I don’t’ know that the BPR agreed to PBS, I have not heard that. That would be a big change and the NAC should have updated the members if that were the case. I have talked to F/A’s and they have agreed to PBS.

 

[Move2CLT]

Uhaul, finally you have an avatar that fits.

Nails USAPA to a tee, doesn't it hair Pi.

And our boys left because the east was basically filibustering. They shut down the meeting because it wasn't going there way. They couldn't force anything through and it was one failure after another.

With that, I wouldn't have stuck around either.

They shut the meeting down.

 

[Move2CLT]

WINNING!

I'm beginning to believe that like with Charley, drugs must be involved on both sides of this thing sometimes.

I wouldn't expect you to understand hair Pi. You're not on the side that has grievance granny pushing through grievances that hurt the west. You haven't been sued by your union, have you? Resolutions tabled indefinitely?

Try stepping down from your high horse and taking a peek at what we're going through.

 

[cleardirect]

#### you Brutus. The Nic did not comply with ALPA merger policy, and Prater and everyone else knows it. Prater and the board were too timid to do anything about it, ergo they got shitcanned.

Let the attacks on your own begin. So much for other opinions.

So in your opinion ALPA merger policy was not followed. Other than your opinion do you have any legal authority that agrees with you? The ALPA EVP did not agree with you. The courts have not agreed with you. The arbitrator did not agree with you.

How do you know what Prater thinks? Do you have a sworn testimony from him stating that merger policy was not followed?

But that is alright. You can be one of the last ones to the party. The rest of us will be waiting for you to get your mind right and understand where this will end up. the same place it was going to end up 5 years ago, at the arbitrated result. Except you gave away 100 of millions of dollars to get here.

 

[BoeingBoy]

What? Here is your post #29374:

"Braid, Stockdell and I

Only one of those is a BPR member, assuming it's the same Braid. Stockdell isn't on the BPR. Who knows who "I" is...other than Move that is...

Jim

 

[Pi brat]

Only one of those is a BPR member, assuming it's the same Braid. Stockdell isn't on the BPR. Who knows who "I" is...other than Move that is...

Jim

The USAPA Board of Pilot Representatives Special Meeting began Thursday morning just after 0900 ET at the USAPA Headquarters in Charlotte, N.C. BPR representatives were present with Jeff Koontz, DDR for Eric Ferguson (PHX), and Brian Stockdell, DDR for Roger Velez (PHX).

Where did the votes come from to join with the east in overriding the 2 PHL reps and the CLT reps?

 

[PullUp]

Get rid of CoC to start because its worthless and the company can get around it.

Interesting that this section of the contract is highlighted here and now when another merger might be on the horizon.
Maybe this clause was an impediment to the UAL or DAL proposed marriages?
I vote with 9, keep it because it is a bargaining lever.
And really - give it up?- for what? Everything has a price and nothing is for free.
Not anymore. No more 'for the good of the company'. Ha. Show me the money.
Cheers.

 

[Pi brat]

I wouldn't expect you to understand hair Pi. You're not on the side that has grievance granny pushing through grievances that hurt the west. You haven't been sued by your union, have you? Resolutions tabled indefinitely?

Try stepping down from your high horse and taking a peek at what we're going through.

You have no clue about me.

In uhaul land 2 wrongs make a right and victory will be won through defeat.

Keep talking, you're doing a better job of making MY point than I am.