US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Move2CLT]

Owens pretty much nailed it in his swan song letter. The NAC and Cleary have been lying to the members for years. DiOrio and gang are showing up unprepared, unshaven, and often without a professional negotiator in the room (per the CBL.)

Look at the facts...our NAC's supposed positions of "industry standard" are not even close to the truth. Just look at John's charts. I have already missed my prediction of us being parked by Christmas..but is coming. The Mediator has had enough of USAPA's unprofessional and unprepared fun and games. The Company knows the cost of every offer on the table. USAPA could not be bothered, asking for over 1B up front. Get real.

Funny thing is, Cleary is putting out the message that "others" are trying to give away seniority ("working with the West") while he has been spinning his wheels for almost three years. The biggest challenge to a DOH list is a new merger without a combined contract East and West. That ship has sailed...so all the 1999 hires out East that Cleary is courting for his election votes don't even realize they are already screwed. No way straight DOH is going to survive a third party merger.

RR

Hasn't it crossed your mind that Cleary wants to park the negs? USAPAs goal is to delay implementation of the Nic award , even at the expense of no contract.

With USAPA walking in unprepared, they hope to force the mediator to park both side and allow Cleary to the blame the company and the mediator for suspending negs.

No negs, no contract, no Nic and upgrades captured. That's been USAPA strategy all along.

 

[Reed Richards]

Hasn't it crossed your mind that Cleary wants to park the negs? USAPAs goal is to delay implementation of the Nic award , even at the expense of no contract.

With USAPA walking in unprepared, they hope to force the mediator to park both side and allow Cleary to the blame the company and the mediator for suspending negs.

No negs, no contract, no Nic and upgrades captured. That's been USAPA strategy all along.

Not only has it not crossed my mind, but I know it not to be true. The taunting and bragging on this very forum has never been about actually being happy about the beauty of attrition..rather just an excuse to be happy by East pilots facing the reality of our situation.

I dislike Mike Cleary as person and because of his politics, and his actions actually hurt our goals. He is a failure. But at the end of the day, I can assure you the two of us are united in our goal of a DOH seniority list. He is unable to procure it because of his incompetence, I am unable to procure it because all I have is a bunch of posts on a web board.

The simple fact all of you out West have missed is most of us out East feel the same way. There will be a few hundred that leave the reservation if even a small pay raise comes with seniority concessions..but those will be very senior guys with only months left trying to protect their own families. I get that. Thanks to them for sticking with us so far.

Don't confuse a fantasy strategy with the reality of our situation.

RR

 

[malikie]

Don't confuse a fantasy strategy with the reality of our situation.

RR
[/quote]

Your reality is fantasy. You east pilots are just to stupid to understand that.

 

[aquagreen73s]

The simple fact all of you out West have missed is most of us out East feel the same way. There will be a few hundred that leave the reservation if even a small pay raise comes with seniority concessions..but those will be very senior guys with only months left trying to protect their own families. I get that. Thanks to them for sticking with us so far.

Yeah. Just like the Japs in WWII. They preferred death to surrender. Whatever. Didn't change the result then and it won't change your destiny either. The Nic cometh.

 

[Beancounter]

Not only has it not crossed my mind, but I know it not to be true. The taunting and bragging on this very forum has never been about actually being happy about the beauty of attrition..rather just an excuse to be happy by East pilots facing the reality of our situation.

I dislike Mike Cleary as person and because of his politics, and his actions actually hurt our goals. He is a failure. But at the end of the day, I can assure you the two of us are united in our goal of a DOH seniority list. He is unable to procure it because of his incompetence, I am unable to procure it because all I have is a bunch of posts on a web board.

The simple fact all of you out West have missed is most of us out East feel the same way. There will be a few hundred that leave the reservation if even a small pay raise comes with seniority concessions..but those will be very senior guys with only months left trying to protect their own families. I get that. Thanks to them for sticking with us so far.

Don't confuse a fantasy strategy with the reality of our situation.

RR

That's great, but how stupid are you going to feel if the NAC succeeds in getting a concessionary contract with DOH, then in the end you end up with the NIC. The reason you're under LOA 93' is because you(east) refused to negotiate with management and a bankruptcy judge force fed you that contract. You are the most bull headed, self destructive pilot group I've ever encountered. While I may be somewhat impressed with your fortitude I have to wonder how many kicks to the nads it's going to take for your group to learn it pays better to play nice.

 

[Beancounter]

Hasn't it crossed your mind that Cleary wants to park the negs? USAPAs goal is to delay implementation of the Nic award , even at the expense of no contract.

With USAPA walking in unprepared, they hope to force the mediator to park both side and allow Cleary to the blame the company and the mediator for suspending negs.

No negs, no contract, no Nic and upgrades captured. That's been USAPA strategy all along.

Can you imagine if delay is not their strategy and they actually believe they can achieve a DOH staple job. That would make them the most delusional bunch of wacko nut jobs out there. The really scary thing is they're negotiating our contract, or should I say lack thereof.

 

[aquagreen73s]

It really doesn't matter either way. Doug is going to get what he needs from Judge Silver to ascertain the question he posed to her about company liability. After that, macro realities will shape what happens to LCC. Hence, all the hysteria in the East over an AMR merger. If not AMR, then it'll be SWA coming in to consolidate and pay Doug to leave. One thing for sure is that status quo won't be happening.

 

[767one]

Yeah. Just like the Japs in WWII. They preferred death to surrender. Whatever. Didn't change the result then and it won't change your destiny either. The Nic cometh.

"The nic cometh". As do taxes and death but some prefer to defer all three as long as possible.


Hope you had a Merry Christmas and I wish you a Happy New Year

 

[767one]

That's great, but how stupid are you going to feel if the NAC succeeds in getting a concessionary contract with DOH, then in the end you end up with the NIC. The reason you're under LOA 93' is because you(east) refused to negotiate with management and a bankruptcy judge force fed you that contract. You are the most bull headed, self destructive pilot group I've ever encountered. While I may be somewhat impressed with your fortitude I have to wonder how many kicks to the nads it's going to take for your group to learn it pays better to play nice.

Remember the most important piece of equipment is your cup....it aint no coffee cup and it aint no dixie cup and you certainly wouldn't want to drink anything out of it..........keep on kicking. A day without a kick in the nads is like a day without sunshine.

 

[prechilill]

Remember the most important piece of equipment is your cup....it aint no coffee cup and it aint no dixie cup and you certainly wouldn't want to drink anything out of it..........keep on kicking. A day without a kick in the nads is like a day without sunshine.

But it doesn't have to be that way Bob and it certainly isn't the way normal people go through life.

 

[767one]

But it doesn't have to be that way Bob and it certainly isn't the way normal people go through life.

Prechill,


I never thought of pilots as being "normal people" and what is normal to one person may be abnormal to another. For now it is what it is and if things change for the better for all of us east and west I'll be happy for all. If things don't change I can live with it.

I hope you had a Merry Christmas and wish you a Happy New Year

 

[luvn737s]

There will be a few hundred that leave the reservation if even a small pay raise comes with seniority concessions..but those will be very senior guys with only months left trying to protect their own families. I get that. Thanks to them for sticking with us so far.

Have you ever spent any time on a reservation? It's not a pleasant place, abject poverty, little hope for improvement. In a strange way, a perfect metaphor for the east.

Rumor has it that the Canadian pilots are going to remove any age restrictions for airline pilots, with the US likely to follow suit per ICAO. I'd like to see the same junior guys that say their paltry seniority (though many many years in the making) is not for sale, while berating the senior pilots who will exercise their rights to stay till the very last day.

Yeah, those senior guys were really supporting you. Now, about that Santa Clause thing...

 

[fodase]

usapa emergency

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6l9sBUUwmUA&feature=youtu.be

 

[Phoenix]

Owens pretty much nailed it in his swan song letter. The NAC and Cleary have been lying to the members for years. DiOrio and gang are showing up unprepared, unshaven, and often without a professional negotiator in the room (per the CBL.)

Look at the facts...our NAC's supposed positions of "industry standard" are not even close to the truth. Just look at John's charts. I have already missed my prediction of us being parked by Christmas..but is coming. The Mediator has had enough of USAPA's unprofessional and unprepared fun and games. The Company knows the cost of every offer on the table. USAPA could not be bothered, asking for over 1B up front. Get real.

Funny thing is, Cleary is putting out the message that "others" are trying to give away seniority ("working with the West") while he has been spinning his wheels for almost three years. The biggest challenge to a DOH list is a new merger without a combined contract East and West. That ship has sailed...so all the 1999 hires out East that Cleary is courting for his election votes don't even realize they are already screwed. No way straight DOH is going to survive a third party merger.

RR

USAPA spinning its wheels... If only ALPA sympathizers had "spun their wheels" and simply chosen to tell management to pound sand one time in the last two decades, then they would have some ground to stand on when they preach "we are all screwed unless you follow us." "We can hold the line better than them!" (Though they never did.)

ALPA always campaigned on fear and manipulated pilots to pick them as the lesser of two evils. ALPA campaign strategies make me sick.

Vote for who you want. But I'm sick of folks bitching about union members (who have finally stopped the ALPA arterial bleeding) and who are pretending that a counter revolution in the ranks will do anything other than enrich those who want to be in charge again.

Besides, anything that Chip thinks is a sure thing, isn't. 😀

 

[Move2CLT]

Your reality is fantasy. You east pilots are just to stupid to understand that.

Winner, winner chicken dinner.