US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Pi brat]

Saved your job - correct

Windfall - incorrect as the Nic was fair and equitable

Choosing to merge - we were never asked

LOA 93 - never really gave as you had no choice

Future - much, much rosier than yours. We weren't close to bankruptcy and if we did file, we had a few years to hang on and had the option to merger etc. You guys? Not so much. Its was merge or liquidate.

Yours too.

Windfalls are obvious if you look.

Neither did we, and nobody asked.

LOA 93, yeah we did as it passed a vote.

Future-you worked for a 3rd rate airline, with a 3rd rate future. Everybody was knocking down the door to merge with you before US stole your valuable franchise?

 

[Move2CLT]

That is one reason ALPA is gone.

Ya, that's it.

At what point did ALPA give the flying to the west? TA? Via a secret handshake?

Please save your excuses. Neither you, ALPA, USAPA gave flying to anybody. It was never yours to give.

 

[Move2CLT]

Yours too.

Windfalls are obvious if you look.

Neither did we, and nobody asked.

LOA 93, yeah we did as it passed a vote.

Future-you worked for a 3rd airline, with a 3rd rate future. Everybody was knocking down the door to merge with you before US stole your valuable franchise.

Tough to say. The only absolute was your impending liquidation with the failure of this merger.

I only see fair and equitable like most everyone else outside the east pilot group.

Your vote was moot. Either way, your pay was going south. Either via LOA 93 or liquidation.

As you just posted, we had a future. You? Not so much.

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

We weren't close to bankruptcy...

Sir (and I admit that is somewhat gratuitous), your own CEO ( the serial drunk) admitted you would have been liquidated within 30 days without the merger. He also said that USAir (east, for the congenitally stupid) would remain in BK 11, IMHO, a far better proposition than exists now.

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

Please save your excuses. Neither you, ALPA, USAPA gave flying to anybody. It was never yours to give.

It actually was. ALPA National gave it away. No discussion or room for dissent. Why do you think the east dumped them?

 

[Move2CLT]

Sir (and I admit that is somewhat gratuitous), your own CEO ( the serial drunk) admitted you would have been liquidated within 30 days without the merger. He also said that USAir (east, for the congenitally stupid) would remain in BK 11, IMHO, a far better proposition than exists now.

Complete and utter BS.

He never once uttered that at all. Never. That is a fact.

And you guys were done with no merger.

Dream on boo boo. You guys were gone with Parker.

 

[fifidriver]

Sir (and I admit that is somewhat gratuitous), your own CEO ( the serial drunk) admitted you would have been liquidated within 30 days without the merger. He also said that USAir (east, for the congenitally stupid) would remain in BK 11, IMHO, a far better proposition than exists now.

Now that's what I call revisionist history!

 

[Move2CLT]

It actually was. ALPA National gave it away. No discussion or room for dissent. Why do you think the east dumped them?

ALPA National did no such thing. Like I said, they had nothing to give away flying wise so you're FoS again.

And you need to talk your reasoning over with your fellow easties. Most say that this was building up way before the merger and the Nic (not the flying give-away) is what pushed you guys over the edge.

So come back when you make some other story up.

 

[Phoenix]

I believe the length of the recent CLT Domicile Rep Update is ridiculous, it says very little, and very few people will take the time to read this update. A do find a couple of points interesting including:

1. The CLT Reps believe there is only unity of you follow Cleary, the CLT Reps, and their minions. If we disagree with them then there is no unity.

2. What ever happened to the majority rules?

3. With the Addington loss, DJ suit having the West certified as a Class and an accelerated Summary Judgment on the horizon, LOA 93 loss, Preliminary Injunction, PIC underfunding/failure, and etc. now Cleary & the CLT Reps are touting the COC provision as the pilot's great pay increase salvation. USAPA's challenge: The CoC provision does not come into play if US Airways is the surviving business entity.

4. In another Forum there was a discussion of "Demagoguery" along with "Apathy" as the two biggest problems with the East pilot group. The definition of demagoguery "is a leader who makes use of popular prejudices and false claims and promises in order to gain power."

The USAPA leaders in power who were former ALPA RC4/5, UEL's, or are now referred to as the FOC (Friends of Cleary) crowd clearly use demagoguery as their form of leadership at the price of the membership. It's sick and sad, but demagoguery exists within USAPA at everybody's expense.

Some are preaching a return the the glory days when membership apathy allowed the ideals of "get a deal, any deal" to reign supreme. The give away gang had their time in the sun and we will feel their affects long after we retire. They would run after the company in desperation asking how they could compromise again to get the company to graciously move forward, so that the union could provide some "evidence" that they were moving forward.

Accept reality. The company is perfectly happy with an on-time airline that makes money. No one will change their mind. Ask the average Joe at the local Wal-mart, or NASCAR race what he thinks about our deplorable "low wages". You will get more sympathy from them than from other work groups or, gasp, from the other side of the negotiating table.

Espousing a return to the "Let my daddy vote" desperation is not too attractive. But its a free country. Preach whatever you want.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Sir (and I admit that is somewhat gratuitous), your own CEO ( the serial drunk) admitted you would have been liquidated within 30 days without the merger. He also said that USAir (east, for the congenitally stupid) would remain in BK 11, IMHO, a far better proposition than exists now.

Proof?

Put up the conversation, and source it.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Sir (and I admit that is somewhat gratuitous), your own CEO ( the serial drunk) admitted you would have been liquidated within 30 days without the merger. He also said that USAir (east, for the congenitally stupid) would remain in BK 11, IMHO, a far better proposition than exists now.

He hasn't said what you claim. He has said that (old) US would have liquidated within 30 days without the merger though...

Do you really enjoy flapping your lips so much that you have to make things up just to have something to say?

Jim

 

[Pi brat]

your own CEO ( the serial drunk) admitted you would have been liquidated within 30 days without the merger.

I won't say that Parker never said that, because I don't know, but I never heard him say that. What I do remember is him saying that the major carriers getting their costs down to AWA's level was the death knell for AWA. That absent the merger with US the best outlook was for something like a Frontier like outcome.

 

[Pi brat]

He hasn't said what you claim. He has said that (old) US would have liquidated within 30 days without the merger though...

Do you really enjoy flapping your lips so much that you have to make things up just to have something to say?

Jim

How come you never mention the negative things he has said about AWA, just your old company? I can't remember you quoting them.

And as far as anyone else "flapping their lips", why do you speak of the speck in their eyes............

 

[BoeingBoy]

Because you usually jump in and exaggerate them...

If you'd be truthful, you'd admit that I have repeated what Parker has said about HP financial position - both shortly after the merger through the change to his comments over time. Unlike you, I remember (and repeat) all of it - not just the parts that fit a preconceived notion. To be factual, before the actual merger Parker said the HP would face a liquidity problem during the winter of 2005/2006. That morphed to his comments in 2009 (after the spike in oil prices and in the midst of the recession) that HP probably would have ended up going out of business without the merger. As we've discussed before and you've dismissed out of hand, that means 4 years for something to change that would have improved HP's outlook and then another year or two of chapter 11 before possible liquidation - in other words, HP would probably still be in operation, albeit in bankruptcy, without the merger.

Contrast that with his consistent comments that (old) US would have liquidated without the merger.

Jim

 

[Pi brat]

Because you usually jump in and exaggerate them...

Jim

Oh, okay. Good answer.