US Pilots Labor Discussion

[CallawayGolf]

What gains did the west receive? The top 517 slots were protect for the east pilots and then there was a 2:1 ratio of seniority slotting from number 518 on the east and number 1 on the west down to the last active pilots on both lists. There was no gain to the west; only losses based on the methodology employed by the arbitration panel. From September 27, 2005 (or May 1, 2007 if you prefer), both east and west pilots could only gain seniority based on attrition from those with a higher number than them at the combined airline or by having the company expand and hire more people who would be junior to them even if the top of the seniority list remained relatively static. The only way a gain could have occurred in the process for the west would have been if the NIC had taken west pilots say in the 70th percentile on 9/26/2005 and moved them up to the 60th, 50th, 40th, or a higher percentile on 9/27/2005. If that was the case then I would fully concur that a gain had been realized. I personally don't think such an approach would have been "fair" but it would still have been just as valid and legally binding as the approach he/they selected via the May 1, 2007 award.

 

[Pi brat]

Even if one buys into that logic, it was not the west PILOTS that did anything at all to "save" US Airways. So, why should they get any more benefit from the actions of Bruce Lakefield and the money people who actually did the "saving."

That's the fallacy of the argument. The west PILOTS saved no one from liquidation. NO ONE. Period. The "we deserve the Nic and the east attrition because 'we saved you' argument is pure BS."

AMEN!

 

[Pi brat]

The east paid US Air. That airline, along with your payment is gone. You gambled and lost.

Youre starting over.

Let it go.

You are WRONG on all counts. We are not starting over. I report to work on the same computers, in the same crew room then fly mostly the same planes I did before the merger. It's just that now it they are parts of another company. That's called a merger.

We are still paying, subsidizing people like you.

No gamble, just making life decisions with the best info. I had at the time.

Let it go? NEVER. I had planned on that, but now because of people like you I will fight you until I retire.

 

[Pi brat]

Not only that, most (if not all) of the 517 were working here before American West even had an operating certificate. How is that a windfall for those 517, most of whom were also captains before American West started flying.

I say windfall only to those that claim that the Nic was slotting by equipment, not to take anything away from our top guys. If that were the case only the top few hundred east guys would have been on top. It was a goofy way to protect the WB flying.

The support of the 517 has been noted and appreciated.

 

[Pi brat]

Leaving out the rest of your quote. Is that something you east guys are taught? usapa does it all the time now you.



You were specific. Captains and F/O's. You said most of the 517 position were not captains but f/o's. I told you there were 8 F/o's in the top 517. Damn man admit your error and move on.

Good God, this must be how the short bus driver feels.

Forget it, you can't handle the big numbers. Run on out and play with the scorpions.

 

[BoeingBoy]

AMEN!

Unfortunately you back NYC's response that completely misses the point. My post said nothing about the old "who saved whom" argument but was entirely about the expectations game you play. Claiming some west pilot has certain expectations (and thus a windfall) before his/her future retirement (however far that is in the future) under the Nic yet refusing to acknowledge what the expectation of every east pilot was without the merger - on the street.

However, since NYC introduced the "who saved whom" game which you so enthusiastically supported, let's play that game. You and your pals love to point out the lower pay that HP's pilots received for years, but refuse to accept that that allowed HP to continue operating and to eventually merge with (old) US. Yet you love to point out how the east pilots "saved" (old) US which allowed the merger to happen. You can't have it both ways - either both groups sacrificed to enable their carrier to be around for the merger or neither group did. The fact is that Parker saying "Yes" to the merger saved (old) US - no matter who you choose to believe raised the money, it was the proposed merger that made it possible to raise that money. Had Parker said "No way, Jose" (old) US would have been history - likely before the end of 2005 and certainly during the winter of 2005/2006.

You and your pals are so obstinate that you refuse to believe that a new company was created by the merger. What did you claim - that you check in on the same computers in the same crew room, etc, etc? Wrong. You've apparently forgotten that the crew room computers were all replaced after the merger. That the crew room itself is now the "property" (leased from the airport) of LCC, not US. Etc, etc. It's the standard "the west pilots were added to our list and it's not fair for any of them to improve their lot in life unless I get everything I want first. It's not just the height of hypocrisy but also the epitome of greed. But you've convinced yourself that you deserve it all and anything or anybody that stands between you and your goal is lower than scum.

Jim

PS - why are you saying "This must be how the short bus driver feels"? Aren't you the short bus driver...

 

[Pi brat]

your goal is lower than scum.

My goal? And lower than you?

 

[traderjake]

PS - why are you saying "This must be how the short bus driver feels"? Aren't you the short bus driver...

Wrong end of the bus, Jim.

 

[Pi brat]

Wrong end of the bus, Jim.

As NYC said, run along, it's time for Wapner.

 

[traderjake]

I don't have a TV.

Don't you get tired of being wrong?

 

[Beancounter]

You are WRONG on all counts. We are not starting over. I report to work on the same computers, in the same crew room then fly mostly the same planes I did before the merger. It's just that now it they are parts of another company. That's called a merger.

We are still paying, subsidizing people like you.

No gamble, just making life decisions with the best info. I had at the time.

Let it go? NEVER. I had planned on that, but now because of people like you I will fight you until I retire.

May I suggest getting a better source of info? I say this because, the east as a whole is making bad decision after bad decision. I'm not talking about fighting the NIC, I'm talking about our next contract. There's not enough of us on the west to stop USAPA from giving away the farm.

 

[Pi brat]

I don't have a TV.

Don't you get tired of being wrong?

There we go, life imitating art.

 

[Pi brat]

May I suggest getting a better source of info? I say this because, the east as a whole is making bad decision after bad decision. I'm not talking about fighting the NIC, I'm talking about our next contract. There's not enough of us on the west to stop USAPA from giving away the farm.

And what info. are you talking about because I don't see anything from my post that is incorrect even though Jim has checked the serial numbers and states that the computers are different. SO, okay the computers may be different, what else? And what source would you suggest, AOL?

 

[BoeingBoy]

even though Jim has checked the serial numbers and states that the computers are different.

You obviously don't remember, or choose to ignore, inconvenient facts. I guess it helps you drift through life uncaring until it affects you then you look for someone to blame for what you let happen...

Jim

 

[Pi brat]

You obviously don't remember, or choose to ignore, inconvenient facts. I guess it helps you drift through life uncaring until it affects you then you look for someone to blame for what you let happen...

Jim

Ok, Jim almighty, I'll concede that the computers are different because I don't really keep up with them. Is that a really crucial point? I do know that I still check in on Catcrew. I still go to Decs in Saber and check various info., I still talk to schedulers in PIT, just like I used to do. Big parts of the old US are still here, rolled into one with the old AWA. You act as if the old US went out of business then we joined a renamed AWA.

Is that really all you've got?