US Pilots Labor Discussion

[USA320Pilot]

Too bad for you.

Their are Captain's with a lot less than 35 years unbroken service at other airlines that make more than a USAirways B767 or A330 Captain flying a narrow body. With more days off, more vacation, better retirement........

So the rest of us are stuck in limbo so YOU can fly a wide body your last 2 or 3 years? Ain't gonna happen.

I find it interesting that a pilot desires 2 to 3 years of widebody Captain flying and is willing to break a pomise, violate a contract, and virtually staple an entire pilot group to the bottom of a joint seniority list to accomplish those personal goals.

Personally...I can't do that.

 

[Phoenix]

I find it interesting that a pilot desires 2 to 3 years of widebody Captain flying and is willing to break a pomise, violate a contract, and virtually staple an entire pilot group to the bottom of a joint seniority list to accomplish those personal goals.

Personally...I can't do that.

Yeah, can you believe it? A pilot that is gonna be a widebody captain for the last 12 years of their career anyway (yet who never had that career expectation), is hellbent on pushing others aside so they can get at it 2 or 3 years earlier, just to have the seat for 14 years instead of 12?

Personally... can you support that?

 

[Reed Richards]

Too bad for you.

Their are Captain's with a lot less than 35 years unbroken service at other airlines that make more than a USAirways B767 or A330 Captain flying a narrow body. With more days off, more vacation, better retirement........

So the rest of us are stuck in limbo so YOU can fly a wide body your last 2 or 3 years? Ain't gonna happen.

You don't even choose to vote, so "ain't gonna happen" is looking kind of lame 7 years after the merger announcement, 5 years since the NIC came out, and almost 4 since USAPA's birth. Enjoy limbo at the top (at least for the next year 🙂 )

You have always been very cordial and professional every time I met you. I don't understand your persona here.

RR

 

[USA320Pilot]

You don't even choose to vote, so "ain't gonna happen" is looking kind of lame 7 years after the merger announcement, 5 years since the NIC came out, and almost 4 since USAPA's birth. Enjoy limbo at the top (at least for the next year 🙂 )

You have always been very cordial and professional every time I met you. I don't understand your persona here.

RR

Why did you say "you don't even choose to vote?"

My point is I believe it's wrong to break a promise, it's wrong to intentionally violate a contract, it's wrong to virtually staple an entire pilot group to the bottom of a joint seniority list, and it's wrong to climb the backs of others. I too am disappointed that US Airways' East pilots did not have the career they dreamed of, but I believe character and integrity is more important than not abiding by one's word and violating a contract (the Transition Agreement).

Regardless, it appears in short-order the decision for US Airways' pilots will be to not integrate pilot groups per the Nicolau Award and continue with C2004/LOA 93 as their contract or accept Judge Silver's decision and negotiate a joint contract. If USAPA decides to remain status quo then I believe the 3rd listers or new hires; along with the East anti-USAPA/PHXpbased pilots, will eventually gain control of the union, which should occur in a couple of years, and then they will accept the Nicolau Award and negotiate a new contract.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Yeah, can you believe it? A pilot that is gonna be a widebody captain for the last 12 years of their career anyway (yet who never had that career expectation), is hellbent on pushing others aside so they can get at it 2 or 3 years earlier, just to have the seat for 14 years instead of 12?

Personally... can you support that?

Phoenix,

With all due respect, without emotion and anger, can you provide some facts to validate your comment?

USA320Pilot

 

[Reed Richards]

I find it interesting that a pilot desires 2 to 3 years of widebody Captain flying and is willing to break a pomise, violate a contract, and virtually staple an entire pilot group to the bottom of a joint seniority list to accomplish those personal goals.

Personally...I can't do that.

I made no "promise,"..... other than to our 17 year guy put behind a new hire (that I would not accept such a travesty.) I made no contract, and when I do, it will only be after my vote is counted. A new union was legally formed and voted in prior to my vote even happening. That union has no reason, much less a legal requirement to continue to follow the failed policy and decisions of the union they threw off the property. Have you not been paying attention?

Seniority matters. DOH is DOH. Fences and restrictions can take care of the delicate unpleasant situations..but only if they are negotiated. Remember, no other group on this property, either side, offered such protections of any kind. DOH ruled. And many of them have or are close to agreements (second one for the dispatchers.)

I had a guy in my Reserve unit years ago, you remind me of him. He saw nothing wrong with claiming government per diem for driving his car to drill, all the while actually jumpseating on his own airline. He sold vitamins for profit, against military rules, on the base. I could not do THAT.

You really take the cake tonight 320, you really do.

RR

 

[traderjake]

You have always been very cordial and professional every time I met you.

It's easy when you're right.

DOH is not seniority.

Seniority is your position on a seniority list.

That's why it's called a seniority number.

You guys are to be pitied, not scorned.

 

[USA320Pilot]

I made no "promise,"..... other than to our 17 year guy put behind a new hire (that I would not accept such a travesty.) I made no contract, and when I do, it will only be after my vote is counted. A new union was legally formed and voted in prior to my vote even happening. That union has no reason, much less a legal requirement to continue to follow the failed policy and decisions of the union they threw off the property. Have you not been paying attention?

Seniority matters. DOH is DOH. Fences and restrictions can take care of the delicate unpleasant situations..but only if they are negotiated. Remember, no other group on this property, either side, offered such protections of any kind. DOH ruled. And many of them have or are close to agreements (second one for the dispatchers.)

I had a guy in my Reserve unit years ago, you remind me of him. He saw nothing wrong with claiming government per diem for driving his car to drill, all the while actually jumpseating on his own airline. He sold vitamins for profit, against military rules, on the base. I could not do THAT.

You really take the cake tonight 320, you really do.

RR

RR,

Again, with all due respect your post is filled with inaccurate information and opinion - not facts.

US Airways' East pilots are the union; therefore, the polices and the contract of the union are required to be upheld by the membership. Members agree to that when they join the association. Furthermore, the ALPA MEC and USAPA BPR are bound by the pilot's contract. The Transition Agreement requires the Nicolau Award to be implemented, which is why USAPA will always be DFR if the union can get the company to negotiate and implement a different seniority integration. The pilot's contract does not say may, could or should implement the arbitrator's seniority integration...the pilot's contract says the US Airways and America West pilots will integrate per the Arbitrator's decision (paraphrased). The company understands this, which is why they told Judge Silver in the Scheduling Conference they believe they are bound by the Transition Agreement and must implement pilot groups per the contract.

Do I like this? No, of course not, but it's the law, which clearly will be forced upon US Airways' by Judge Silver and I'm not going to bury my head in the sand in hopes this all goes away.

It does not matter what the seniority integration policy of any other unions is. What matters is the seniority integration policy of the pilot's union. Nowhere does DOH exist except in USAPA's C&BLs.

Finally, I have never intentionally violated a policy, contract, or any other provision in my life and I don't intend to do so now.

By the way, why did you say "you don't even choose to vote?"

USA320Pilot

 

[Move2CLT]

The NIC will never be a career killer anyway. That ship has sailed.

RR

The only ship that has sailed is your DOH wet dream.

That's gone.

Nic is coming. Its just a matter of when.

 

[Move2CLT]

...17 year guy put behind a new hire

Where was he on your list at the time of the merger?

 

[Move2CLT]

I take it you have never seen Yul Brynner in The King and I. Probably too young.

I have but I don't remember "ect' anywhere in the movie.

 

[Reed Richards]

Where was he on your list at the time of the merger?

Right below the guy hired the day before him, and right above the guy hired the day after him. Just like every other employee at this airline.

RR

 

[Reed Richards]

By the way, why did you say "you don't even choose to vote?"

USA320Pilot

Ok, we all know Christmas just came and you finally decided to join.

We all also know my "you don't even choose to vote?" was not even directed, nor in a post, to you.

Good for you, finally did something right.

RR

 

[USA320Pilot]

Let me be clear about my opinions. I believe DOH is the correct form of an integration and I believe the Nicolau Award is unfair to the East pilots. The most glaring inequity is Jim Zeigler. At the time of the merger Jim had 17 years and 3 months of continuous service at US Airways and he has never been furloughed. Jim was the most senior pilot on the Salamatt Report who was projected to upgrade - Joe Monda and Ralph Conrad were projected to retire. When the Nicolau Award was released Jim was junior to an AWA pilot who had 3 months of service, was an ALPA apprentice member, and was on probation with the Company.

Who had more influence on the combined business entity and produced more revenue for the merger to proceed? Jim or Dave O'Dell?

I believe most of us realize final and binding is final and binding and USAPA's approach is breaking the union and the membership's promise to integrate pilot groups per the pilot's contract. Do I like this? No, absolutely not. But, because I or some of us don't like this does not give USAPA the right to not abide by every section and every LOA of the pilot's contract.

I don't want to debate this too much longer. I believe within a short period of time Judge Silver will order US Airways and USAPA to implement the Nicolau Award. Shortly thereafter, I believe the new hires, East anti-USAPA pilots, and USAPA's PHX-based pilots will take control of the union and negotiate a new contract that includes the Nicolau Award because they prefer pay and benefit increases for every US Airways pilots versus violating the likely DJ lawsuit SLI court order or remaining status quo.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[Reed Richards]

Do I like this? No, of course not, but it's the law, which clearly will be forced upon US Airways' by Judge Silver and I'm not going to bury my head in the sand in hopes this all goes away.
USA320Pilot

Explain that process to me, how NIC will be "forced" upon US Airways by Judge Silver. Cliff Notes version is ok tonight, I am taking up way too much of your time.

RR