US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Move2CLT]

Then why do you guys want a part of it so bad...

Separate ops,,, 10 year fence.... Done deal....

Oh yeah forgot,,,, your just bs us,,,, ou really want to jump the line

,,,,,, ...... ,,,,,,,,,

WTF is up with that? Focus more on coherence and less on punctuation.

 

[Move2CLT]

I need a little help from you easties if you could spare a moment.

I'm voting for Cleary and want to know if I should go for the more disfunctional VP vote ie Ciabattoni or go for the incompetent sidekick vote of Borman.

I hope Borman will be done with his 30 day suspension by then. Guess playing the yellow lanyard sunglasses holder trick didn't go over too well.

And then, of course, Hummel for EVP. The dynamic he brings to the office is exciting!

And for managing the deficit spending, I think it should be someone with a questionable work history.

Hmmmmm,.

Ahhh, Crimi just might do the trick.

What say you easties?

 

[traderjake]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/giddygirlie/2987270819/

Go ahead, throw your vote away.

 

[luvn737s]

Then why do you guys want a part of it so bad...

Separate ops,,, 10 year fence.... Done deal....

Oh yeah forgot,,,, your just bs us,,,, ou really want to jump the line

You can't even negotiate that! I want a raise that comes with a contract and merged seniority list. The process was agreed to and followed and the results should be implemented.

Again, the airline with which you feel entitled to attrition no longer exists. It was merged and that new merged entity should be able to move forward without interference from the east. There are far more employees who should gain the benefits of the merger thn just the east pilots.

There is a price to be paid for not being reasonable during negotiations. The rest of the airline shouldn't have to pay it for you.

 

[Phoenix]

Don't spend all those 40 numbers all in one place.

Always grumpy and kicking...

Seems to me you probably go through 40 dogs in one year.

 

[USA320Pilot]

USAPA Election Candidates

It is my understanding that Eric Ferguson will run for USAPA president, Jeff Koontz as USAPA vice president, and Ken Holmes as USAPA executive vice president as a ticket. I do not know either of these men and I assume they're good people and capable leaders, but I believe they cannot win the election and their decision has increased the odds that Mike Cleary or Gary Hummel will become USAPA's next president.

Why? Eric and Ken have been deeply involved in AOL and their involvement in AddressGate. Whether Eric and Ken were guilty or not their suspension makes them look guilty and they will be viewed as people who cannot be trusted by the majority of east pilots.

I believe an incumbent USAPA leader or an AOL leader cannot build unity because of the on-going SLI dispute and emotions are still too raw.

Again, in my opinion, the best way to heal wounds, build trust, and move forward is to elect a pilot as USAPA's next president who does not have a dog in the SLI dispute and can build unity between both pilot groups.

Today, more than ever after reading the Reform USAPA ticket, I support Andy Reitz as president and will encourage others to do so too because I believe it's the only way to ensure USAPA's current management style will be removed from office.

Unfortunately, I believe it will be impossible for Mike Cleary, Garry Hummel, and Eric Ferguson to build unity because of their past history in union affairs and other actions. And, if Eric or an East pilot are in a "run-off" election prior to the SLI dispute completion I believe the east pilots will use their voting majority to vote as a block for an east pilot, which could easily create 3 more years like the past 3 years of USAPA representation.

 

[prechilill]

Must be nice to have all that free time. Best to all.

 

[Metroyet]

USAPA Election Candidates

It is my understanding that Eric Ferguson will run for USAPA president, Jeff Koontz as USAPA vice president, and Ken Holmes as USAPA executive vice president as a ticket. I do not know either of these men and I assume they're good people and capable leaders, but I believe they cannot win the election and their decision has increased the odds that Mike Cleary or Gary Hummel will become USAPA's next president.

Why? Eric and Ken have been deeply involved in AOL and their involvement in AddressGate. Whether Eric and Ken were guilty or not their suspension makes them look guilty and they will be viewed as people who cannot be trusted by the majority of east pilots.

I believe an incumbent USAPA leader or an AOL leader cannot build unity because of the on-going SLI dispute and emotions are still too raw.

Again, in my opinion, the best way to heal wounds, build trust, and move forward is to elect a pilot as USAPA's next president who does not have a dog in the SLI dispute and can build unity between both pilot groups.

Today, more than ever after reading the Reform USAPA ticket, I support Andy Reitz as president and will encourage others to do so too because I believe it's the only way to ensure USAPA's current management style will be removed from office.

Unfortunately, I believe it will be impossible for Mike Cleary, Garry Hummel, and Eric Ferguson to build unity because of their past history in union affairs and other actions. And, if Eric or an East pilot are in a "run-off" election prior to the SLI dispute completion I believe the east pilots will use their voting majority to vote as a block for an east pilot, which could easily create 3 more years like the past 3 years of USAPA representation.

That sounds like the problem of EAST pilots to me. If they're too stupid to stop digging the hole, then I say $#%& them. They can rot on LOA 93. I have more faith than you do that PLENTY of east pilots are not as stupid as you think and are ready and willing to move fwd...which of course means life with an unmodified Nic. award. Silver is probably a bigger lynch pin than whomever is running. If Ferguson is going to run as a ticket, a little word of advise. The Last time his communications with pilots as a candidate were uncharacteristically arrogant, abrasive and divisive. In the future, any campaign materials need to be written in his normally thoughtful, eloquent manner.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Reform USAPA is mailing campaign post cards to east pilot's homes. I believe this is a huge mistake (presumably by Eric and Ken) because after receiving a 30-day suspension for AddressGate, presumably west pilots who have access to east pilot addresses, are once again sending information to a pilot's home. This will be negatively viewed by USAPA and the East pilots.

Just like the UELs who do the same thing over and over again and expect different results the post card mailing strategy is going to infuriate east pilots and I believe drive a further wedge between pilots based east and west of the Mississippi River. As the campaign unfolds it is becoming more clear to me that if Andy Reitz does not win one of the two "run-off" positions for USAPA president we will be likely have Mike Cleary or Gary Hummel as USAPA's next president.

Was there another violation by west pilots to mail information to an east pilot's home? It will be interesting watching this unfold, but to the UELs and many east pilots this could be like pouring gas on a fire.

 

[prechilill]

Reform USAPA is mailing campaign post cards to east pilot's homes. I believe this is a huge mistake (presumably by Eric and Ken) because after receiving a 30-day suspension for AddressGate, presumably west pilots who have access to east pilot addresses, are once again sending information to a pilot's home. This will be negatively viewed by USAPA and the East pilots.

Chip, EVERYTHING will be viewed as negative by the east pilots.

 

[cactusboy53]

USAPA Election Candidates

It is my understanding that Eric Ferguson will run for USAPA president, Jeff Koontz as USAPA vice president, and Ken Holmes as USAPA executive vice president as a ticket. I do not know either of these men and I assume they're good people and capable leaders, but I believe they cannot win the election and their decision has increased the odds that Mike Cleary or Gary Hummel will become USAPA's next president.

Why? Eric and Ken have been deeply involved in AOL and their involvement in AddressGate. Whether Eric and Ken were guilty or not their suspension makes them look guilty and they will be viewed as people who cannot be trusted by the majority of east pilots.

I believe an incumbent USAPA leader or an AOL leader cannot build unity because of the on-going SLI dispute and emotions are still too raw.

Again, in my opinion, the best way to heal wounds, build trust, and move forward is to elect a pilot as USAPA's next president who does not have a dog in the SLI dispute and can build unity between both pilot groups.

Today, more than ever after reading the Reform USAPA ticket, I support Andy Reitz as president and will encourage others to do so too because I believe it's the only way to ensure USAPA's current management style will be removed from office.

Unfortunately, I believe it will be impossible for Mike Cleary, Garry Hummel, and Eric Ferguson to build unity because of their past history in union affairs and other actions. And, if Eric or an East pilot are in a "run-off" election prior to the SLI dispute completion I believe the east pilots will use their voting majority to vote as a block for an east pilot, which could easily create 3 more years like the past 3 years of USAPA representation.

Once again: Cart placed FIRMLY in front of horse. Andy seems like a nice guy, with some good ideas. You have yet to hear from any of the other candidates to make a logical assessment of what they have to offer. It's your opinion, but quite frankly way too early to be delivered (IMHO).

I am going to wait to see who is ultimately on the ballot. Then I am going to review all communications from ALL the nominees. Then I am going to weigh what these nominees have to say, AND what level of experience (union, non-union, charitable, business, etc) and leadership these people have.

I will also be looking at incumbents that run, and see what they have done or failed to do in this union.

I will then make my own decision and try to influence others to vote LOGICALLY vs. EMOTIONALLY on who I perceive to be the persons best suited to lead us NOW to a new contract. If someone is going to vote for Andy vs. Eric for the simple reason that Eric is involved with Leonidas (and any perceived stigma related as such)...then we are demonstrating an emotional decision. That would be like me not voting for a candidate because I had simply heard they were emotionally unstable or had been accused of violence and other nefarious acts.

IMHO, there are enough level headed people (East & West) that now know that the Nicolau is the only legal seniority list. Further, I believe these people will be fully able to separate the "wheat from the chaff".

There are a bunch of dominoes that have to fall in place for these events. If one votes with education and logic, the choice will be quite nearly obvious. If one votes with raw emotion and blind determination for separate operations, then too the choice will be also obvious.

It is our responsibility and duty to become educated on who is running, what their experience level is, and what they can deliver based on historic data.

 

[cactusboy53]

Reform USAPA is mailing campaign post cards to east pilot's homes. I believe this is a huge mistake (presumably by Eric and Ken) because after receiving a 30-day suspension for AddressGate, presumably west pilots who have access to east pilot addresses, are once again sending information to a pilot's home. This will be negatively viewed by USAPA and the East pilots.

Just like the UELs who do the same thing over and over again and expect different results the post card mailing strategy is going to infuriate east pilots and I believe drive a further wedge between pilots based east and west of the Mississippi River. As the campaign unfolds it is becoming more clear to me that if Andy Reitz does not win one of the two "run-off" positions for USAPA president we will be likely have Mike Cleary or Gary Hummel as USAPA's next president.

Was there another violation by west pilots to mail information to east pilot's home? It will be interesting watching this unfold, but to the UELs and many east pilots this could be like pouring gas on a fire.

320;
EVERYONE has access to pilot addresses. They can be bought or gleaned for FREE. How do you think Gleim/AOPA/Jeppesen/ etc. mail you notification that you can use their services to re-do your CFI?? Communicating with the pilots of this airline are protected by LMRDA rights.

"AddressGate" is utter BULLCRAP. Anyone that thinks otherwise has been drinking the USAPA koolaide far too long. What happen to the guys that got the West pilot info for the purposes of starting up USAPA? How did they get my address? Was my SSN also in that file (I think it was)?

If the wedge gets further driven between these pilot groups, then it is squarely on the shoulders of those pilots that vote in the wrong people (again). If the east pilots manage to vote in Cleary (or some other DOH-lite nominee) as opposed to someone that has demonstrated history of leadership skills and a clearly defined plan to a new and better contract (that is unaltered Nicolau inclusive)......then it's on them. DAL is now negotiating a SECOND post merger contract. We know Cleary's plan is DELAY, DELAY, DELAY (with NO CONTRACT as long as it contains the Nicolau Award).

A little quick out of the gate, aren't we?

 

[USA320Pilot]

Once again: Cart placed FIRMLY in front of horse. Andy seems like a nice guy, with some good ideas. You have yet to hear from any of the other candidates to make a logical assessment of what they have to offer. It's your opinion, but quite frankly way too early to be delivered (IMHO).

I am going to wait to see who is ultimately on the ballot. Then I am going to review all communications from ALL the nominees. Then I am going to weigh what these nominees have to say, AND what level of experience (union, non-union, charitable, business, etc) and leadership these people have.

I will also be looking at incumbents that run, and see what they have done or failed to do in this union.

I will then make my own decision and try to influence others to vote LOGICALLY vs. EMOTIONALLY on who I perceive to be the persons best suited to lead us NOW to a new contract. If someone is going to vote for Andy vs. Eric for the simple reason that Eric is involved with Leonidas (and any perceived stigma related as such)...then we are demonstrating an emotional decision. That would be like me not voting for a candidate because I had simply heard they were emotionally unstable or had been accused of violence and other nefarious acts.

IMHO, there are enough level headed people (East & West) that now know that the Nicolau is the only legal seniority list. Further, I believe these people will be fully able to separate the "wheat from the chaff".

There are a bunch of dominoes that have to fall in place for these events. If one votes with education and logic, the choice will be quite nearly obvious. If one votes with raw emotion and blind determination for separate operations, then too the choice will be also obvious.

It is our responsibility and duty to become educated on who is running, what their experience level is, and what they can deliver based on historic data.

CactusBoy53,

I understand your thoughts and they make sense. However, as a person who has endured the east UEL union actions who has been at the forefront of combating what I believe have been toxic east union activity I have a good sense of how this election will unfold. I know virtually all of the east candidates, I know their tactics, and I understand the sentiment of the different factions of the pilot group.

In my opinion, the best way out of this quagmire to prevent a split vote is to build consensus around a candidate who does not have a dog in the SLI fight and does not carry political baggage. If not, I suspect the east will use its voting majority to install east candidates to USAPA officer positions until after the SLI dispute is complete.

USA320Pilot

 

[USA320Pilot]

Cactusboy53,

Cactusboy53 said: "EVERYONE has access to pilot addresses. They can be bought or gleaned for FREE. How do you think Gleim/AOPA/Jeppesen/ etc. mail you notification that you can use their services to re-do your CFI?? Communicating with the pilots of this airline are protected by LMRDA rights."

USA320Pilot responds: I understand that, but that 's not my point. My point is that emotions are still too high and wounds are still too deep. When people are emotional they say and do things they would not otherwise do and they will associate PostCardGate to AddressGate and the 30-day suspensions. Whether we like it or not there are far too many people who look at the US Airways pilots as two separate pilot groups. I believe the post card mailing is going to be negatively viewed and will hurt Eric, Jeff, and Ken's campaign and increase the odds that Mike Cleary or Gary Hummel will win the election if Andy Reitz does not make it to the "run-off".

I could be wrong, but that's how I see it.

USA320Pilot

 

[Ames]

320;
EVERYONE has access to pilot addresses. They can be bought or gleaned for FREE. How do you think Gleim/AOPA/Jeppesen/ etc. mail you notification that you can use their services to re-do your CFI?? Communicating with the pilots of this airline are protected by LMRDA rights.

"AddressGate" is utter BULLCRAP. Anyone that thinks otherwise has been drinking the USAPA koolaide far too long. What happen to the guys that got the West pilot info for the purposes of starting up USAPA? How did they get my address? Was my SSN also in that file (I think it was)?

If the wedge gets further driven between these pilot groups, then it is squarely on the shoulders of those pilots that vote in the wrong people (again). If the east pilots manage to vote in Cleary (or some other DOH-lite nominee) as opposed to someone that has demonstrated history of leadership skills and a clearly defined plan to a new and better contract (that is unaltered Nicolau inclusive)......then it's on them. DAL is now negotiating a SECOND post merger contract. We know Cleary's plan is DELAY, DELAY, DELAY (with NO CONTRACT as long as it contains the Nicolau Award).

A little quick out of the gate, aren't we?

What you say is all well and good but, in the end, the east has the majority of votes. They will get their way and I have little faith that there are enough of them sensible enough to support any candidate that will accept the Nicolau list. The Ferguson ticket doesn't have a chance nor does the third lister who claims to accept the Nic. The line in the sand will not be altered until the fat lady sings in court. (no offense to Judge Silver)