US Pilots Labor Discussion

[mrbreeze]

Doug says thank you for staying underwater to keep the company afloat.

You're happy and Doug's happy.

LOL....you just made his point. we all want a new contract, but what are each one of us willing to do to get there? Obviously, DOH and NIC hardliners are the ones who are going to keep the status quo, until the courts take it out of our hands, then appeals, then on, and on, and on.....

That's the fact Jack.

breeze

 

[traderjake]

No, it's the pilots who think they can renege on a mutually agreed upon arbitration process that are causing the stalemate.

You're not getting a do over.

Enjoy LOA 93 Jack.

 

[Move2CLT]

LOL....you just made his point. we all want a new contract, but what are each one of us willing to do to get there? Obviously, DOH and NIC hardliners are the ones who are going to keep the status quo, until the courts take it out of our hands, then appeals, then on, and on, and on.....

That's the fact Jack.

breeze

And so is LOA93.

BTW, there's no such thing a Nic hardliner. The Nic is the award and expecting both parties to honor an agreement does not make you a hardliner.

And that's the rest of the facts Jack...

...wagon.

 

[mrbreeze]

Enjoy LOA 93 Jack.

Very thoughtful response, trader. But that doesn't change a thing.

 

[Move2CLT]

Agreed!

Of course you agree.

Yawn.

 

[crazystnic]

LOL....you just made his point. we all want a new contract, but what are each one of us willing to do to get there? Obviously, DOH and NIC hardliners are the ones who are going to keep the status quo, until the courts take it out of our hands, then appeals, then on, and on, and on.....

That's the fact Jack.

breeze

Yeah but cactus boy keeps trying to tell us how to think and feel....

I don't see any election changing anything and the east attrition is about to kick in big time.... I've been places where you move up 15 numbers a month.... Moral improves big time with that movement... Better schedules and upgrades for many

 

[Keroseneuser]

Just back from flying. Bunch of full airplanes and lots of jump seaters.

Some election discussion came up here and there. Everybody seemed to agree the east is open to finding a way to move forward. However none would even discuss the possibility of that way being anything that included NIC unmodified. Basically if any T/A included NIC it was an automatic no.

My guess is the Minimum required to get a Yes vote on a NIC contract would be $120 right seat little bus, $165ish left seat little bus and industry standard widebody rates. Doug would rather strip naked and run into Sheriff Joes tent city yelling racial slurs than pay anything close to industry standard. So we are where we are for the forseeable future.

Though the thought of Doug being chased by a couple hundred angry convicts in pink jumpsuits through the desert is good for a snicker or two! 🙂

 

[mrbreeze]

Of course you agree.

Yawn.

Past your bedtime, junior? I have been trying to get my teenager to get on to bed for 15 minutes. You adolescents just don't think ahead, eh?

breeze

 

[Move2CLT]

Past your bedtime, junior? I have been trying to get my teenager to get on to bed for 15 minutes. You adolescents just don't think ahead, eh?

breeze

Good one breeze. That stung.

Oh wait, no it didn't.

 

[traderjake]

Very thoughtful response, trader. But that doesn't change a thing.

Like the fact that we'll retire on LOA 93 wages unless guys like you man up and keep the agreement we made.

 

[fifidriver]

I love how you keep stating that there is no "West" to compromise with. That well due to the single carrier status, there isn't anyone to say, Ok we will move off the NIC, it's simply the NIC, as DOH is not going to pass muster, you must accept the NIC.


Reality of the whole situation though: If your group would sit down and come off the NIC with USAPA coming off DOH and something meeting in the middle. The Bylaws could be changed, West could agree to NOT file a DFR, and there would be a compromise and we could move on. BUT as you have for so long pointed out, if it isn't the NIC, expect a lawsuit to be filed. I'm pretty sure that's what you keep saying?

Sir: I do not think that your assessment is correct. The Nic is the compromise or "middle", and if necessary, I'll file by myself unless the Nic (or something more advantageous to the west) is used. I'm pretty sure that's what I am saying also. In the immortal words of Julius Caesar, "The die is cast!"

 

[traderjake]

Reality of the whole situation though:

.....................................is that we lost the Nicolau and LOA 93 arbitrations so now you want to negotiate seniority.

 

[Metroyet]

Just back from flying. Bunch of full airplanes and lots of jump seaters.

Some election discussion came up here and there. Everybody seemed to agree the east is open to finding a way to move forward. However none would even discuss the possibility of that way being anything that included NIC unmodified. Basically if any T/A included NIC it was an automatic no.

My guess is the Minimum required to get a Yes vote on a NIC contract would be $120 right seat little bus, $165ish left seat little bus and industry standard widebody rates. Doug would rather strip naked and run into Sheriff Joes tent city yelling racial slurs than pay anything close to industry standard. So we are where we are for the forseeable future.

Though the thought of Doug being chased by a couple hundred angry convicts in pink jumpsuits through the desert is good for a snicker or two! 🙂

Until your fake labor union allows you all to vote on something you're just speculating. I've said all along that the very first contract offer...nic inclusive...is going to pass. Why? Because talk is cheap and when you're staring at reality in the privacy of your own home, things change. USAPA has been a catastrophic failure. Everybody knows it and most people have enough sense to stop poking themselves in the eye. Most...certainly not all.

 

[cactusboy53]

Love the emotional responses, Kinda like if some guy finds a lottery ticket and goes to the state capital to cash in, only to find out it's a fake.....BUT I GOT ALL 7 numbers.


It's real simple, everyone wants a contract, just not under the terms of either's idea of a SLI. IF something was put in front of the west pilots that wasn't the NIC, and such they could live with, and that same situation was put in front of the East, and they could live with, AND no body filed any lawsuits......BOOM....the SLI would be finished. Then you could vote on your heralded Kirby contract your itchin to work under.

meanwhile the screams of.....we have no group...our group is usapa.....we aren't doing ANYTHING...we are sitting here innocent victims, taken hostage by the AFO club..etc etc is getting a little old.

Come up with a better solution to end the stalemate? Nope, didn't think so.....and if the DJ process goes against you. Then what are you going to do? Scream louder?

Craze;
Not so much emotion, but more like continued amazement at the complete lack of understanding with regard to where the parties are now. We are DEADLOCKED. The new union was numerically imposed upon us (the AWA pilot group), and we only have that body to represent the ENTIRE pilot group as afforded by the RLA.

No screams here, just LEGAL FACTS: There is no person, party, group, organization, caucus, assembly, circle, posse, gang, club, crew or formation that has the legal right or authority to bargain away from the compromise and legal conclusion that we all know as the Nicolau Seniority List. It is NOT a lottery ticket, as you describe.

USAPA & the USAPA faithful have refused to accept the legal conclusion. You/they have done quite nearly everything in your legal power to evade said conclusion, and as such shoulder the burden for our impasse. We (the AWA) do not take any responsibility for where we are because we have merely defended our position as determined by arbitrator and now the courts. We simply refuse to be steamrolled by a bunch of thugs.

You get one vote in elections and contract ratifications. Vote Cleary and NO until you take your last breath. LOA 93 for life for you or not really doesn't matter to me (it's a choice that you all have collectively made). What matters is that we former AWA pilots have stood up to USAPA's school yard bully tactics and remain standing. It still doesn't change the fact that the former AWA pilots remain on solid legal, moral and ethical grounds.

I guess you continue to vacillate from BARGAINING to the ANGER sections on the Kubler-Ross model of the five stages of grief.

Trying to school you repeatedly on what you are going to be legally required to swallow reminds me of the axiom: How do you get a mule's attention?

 

[cleardirect]

Yeah but cactus boy keeps trying to tell us how to think and feel....

I don't see any election changing anything and the east attrition is about to kick in big time.... I've been places where you move up 15 numbers a month.... Moral improves big time with that movement... Better schedules and upgrades for many

What does attrition do for the guys that are leaving? Don't you think the pilots that create the opening would like to leave with something other than a kick in the ass from a greedy F/O?

I would not say 9 retirements in 2012 is big time attrition.