US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Pi brat]

"Power to the PUI"... Seriously, not to belabor a point, but can you really blame the westies that refuse to allow east jumpseaters in the flight deck?

Yeah, I can because I believe the real incidents are few and far between and that they were dealt with. There are lots of tall tales out there about both sides and I hate to see jumpseat wars over it. If I ever have a problem with a jumpseat rider, east or west, I will deal with them and then if I can't resolve it I will go to my chief pilot.

 

[fifidriver]

Yeah, I can because I believe the real incidents are few and far between and that they were dealt with. There are lots of tall tales out there about both sides and I hate to see jumpseat wars over it. If I ever have a problem with a jumpseat rider, east or west, I will deal with them and then if I can't resolve it I will go to my chief pilot.

I can assure you that this cat is not the victim of a tall tale.

 

[Reed Richards]

December 2, 2011

Captain Michael Cleary

President

US Airlines Pilots Association

200 East Woodlawn Road, Suite 250

Charlotte, NC 28217



Captain Cleary,

I am sending this letter to follow up on a phone conversation we had on November 18 regarding the communication piece you sent to your USAPA membership on November 6th. While your choice of legal counsel for USAPA is your business, I find it both inappropriate and unprofessional for you to publicly speak about other unions’ relationships with said counsel. In this case, such public correspondence is particularly problematic because your information is both misleading and inaccurate.

In your November 6th letter, you stated that SWAPA “terminated their relationship with Seham just this year for "incompetence and billing irregularities". It should be noted that SWAPA did not have a long-standing relationship with Seham, Seham, Meltz & Petersen, so there was no relationship to be “terminated”. We hired Mr. Seham’s firm for a single System Board of Adjustment/Arbitration in Spring of 2010 in which we were attempting to get a pilot reinstated after a termination. The firm had been recommended to SWAPA by another Southwest union that uses the firm regularly. SWAPA chose to hire outside counsel for that arbitration because the subject-matter relating to the pilot’s termination was specialized, and Mr. Seham’s firm had done extensive work in that field. That single arbitration is the only experience SWAPA had with Mr. Seham’s firm. When that arbitration concluded, our relationship with the firm also ended. They were not “terminated” by SWAPA for either incompetence or billing irregularities. We elected to not use them going forward at that time.

Because your letter to the USAPA membership is misleading and inaccurate, I again request (this time in writing) that you retract the statements made to your membership and issue a correction about SWAPA’s past business dealings with Seham, Seham, Meltz & Petersen.

Sincerely,

Steve Chase

President

Southwest Airlines Pilots’ Association

 

[Reed Richards]

No idea of how I'm voting? You're kidding, right?

I thought that my avatar, at the very least, would give it away.

Still no answer...only more questions from you.

Are you voting against Eric in the Primary?

Simple Yes or No. 3 messages and you still cannot reply. I understand, you don't actually know yet..you have not been "told" yet how to vote.

RR

 

[fifidriver]

December 2, 2011

Captain Michael Cleary

President

US Airlines Pilots Association

200 East Woodlawn Road, Suite 250

Charlotte, NC 28217



Captain Cleary,

I am sending this letter to follow up on a phone conversation we had on November 18 regarding the communication piece you sent to your USAPA membership on November 6th. While your choice of legal counsel for USAPA is your business, I find it both inappropriate and unprofessional for you to publicly speak about other unions’ relationships with said counsel. In this case, such public correspondence is particularly problematic because your information is both misleading and inaccurate.

In your November 6th letter, you stated that SWAPA “terminated their relationship with Seham just this year for "incompetence and billing irregularities". It should be noted that SWAPA did not have a long-standing relationship with Seham, Seham, Meltz & Petersen, so there was no relationship to be “terminated”. We hired Mr. Seham’s firm for a single System Board of Adjustment/Arbitration in Spring of 2010 in which we were attempting to get a pilot reinstated after a termination. The firm had been recommended to SWAPA by another Southwest union that uses the firm regularly. SWAPA chose to hire outside counsel for that arbitration because the subject-matter relating to the pilot’s termination was specialized, and Mr. Seham’s firm had done extensive work in that field. That single arbitration is the only experience SWAPA had with Mr. Seham’s firm. When that arbitration concluded, our relationship with the firm also ended. They were not “terminated” by SWAPA for either incompetence or billing irregularities. We elected to not use them going forward at that time.

Because your letter to the USAPA membership is misleading and inaccurate, I again request (this time in writing) that you retract the statements made to your membership and issue a correction about SWAPA’s past business dealings with Seham, Seham, Meltz & Petersen.

Sincerely,

Steve Chase

President

Southwest Airlines Pilots’ Association

"Because your letter to the USAPA membership is misleading and inaccurate" Does any eastie with integrity think that this is a mischaracterization or libelous statement? And you still have the faith to "hook your wagon" to this charlatan? May you reap what you sow!

 

[fifidriver]

So you agree the CC says who they are, and we all know the who owns Unbiased facts, and the article on Change USAPA was "signed." I just don't get your original premises, that you don't know who "speaking."

When 8M dollars of dues moneys are spent there has to be "politics." Just like when Trillions are spent by our government. What do you mean "factions?" That would simply be those who want the moneys spent one way, and others who disagree. I already saw what happens when a union has a "get along, go along" mentality..it was called ALPA, and I lost my retirement to a vote by individuals who dared not "be a faction."

All I ask is the current leadership abide by the CBL of the union and respect the votes of the BPR and the members. They simply have not. I will be a "faction" until they do, or until I can hopefully replace them.

Seems all normal to me, politics being what it is.

Good night PI, and remember to vote early and often!

RR

Hi Reed. I'm curious. How has the current leadership not abided, (abode?) by the CBL of the union and not/or (dis) respected the votes of the BPR and the members? With the change in the status quo as per the BPR vote recently, it appears that they may have respected the vote of the BPR, however, possibly the whim? or the will of the members may have evolved.

 

[Reed Richards]

Hi Reed. I'm curious. How has the current leadership not abided, (abode?) by the CBL of the union and not/or (dis) respected the votes of the BPR and the members? With the change in the status quo as per the BPR vote recently, it appears that they may have respected the vote of the BPR, however, possibly the whim? or the will of the members may have evolved.

Off the cuff..

Sending the NAC into the room with the Company without a Professional Negotiator.

Agreeing to meet with Parker short notice over the UAL merger without consulting the entire BPR, or the Treasurer.

Meeting with Eric Ferguson over "lunch in Texas" without informing the entire BPR or two of the Officers and discussing a seniority compromise.

The President never signing an office lease and working against the majority vote of the BPR daily in everything office related.

The VP faking an email from within the Seham firm to continue the receipt of sexual favors from his "fired Seham" attorney

The President and VP ignoring the gravity of Kubik's Safety survey and stealing it for an illegal job action, putting us all under an injunction...and no change in the flawed safety culture.

My fingers grow tired. Really. You don't need any more.

RR

 

[jetjok1]

It proved my point nicely, as your reaction continues to prove. All you easties smirk when some of you paint the west with the broad brush of "scab", "rookie", etc - even give it positive votes - but definitely don't like having that broad brush used on yourselves. Hypocrisy at it's finest...

Take this for what it's worth ( or don't take it at all). I respected your texts because I believe you're a smart guy with a lot of insight mixed in with experience. But when you used the child molester thing " to prove a point"...........well you crossed the line. I think anybody that does that in any situation, making light of it or not, is a sick f...! I have lost all respect for you...... have not responded to any of your posts since and will not in the future.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Another proves my point...it's fine when easties paint all westies with the worst they can find but how dare anyone do that to easties. Maybe you can tell Claxon you're offended by his avatar...oh, never mind - he supports easties so it's ok

Jim

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

At the PHL meeting yesterday, man was that fun! Compass Correction boy's, with their tag team partners GARY HUMMEL, in promotion of REFORM USAPA, I think TORY VAUGHN was missing to help GARY H. out but it was fun! MM!

 

[HonuFly]

If over a 100 nominations on the east, doesn't that tell you something?
Many east posters come on here and tell us they are solid, and happy with the way things are going. It looks like the general population out there is not so happy and very fractionalized.
Now look at the west, one consensual candidate for each position. We will vote as one, as the saying goes, together we stand or divided we fall.
Where does the east fit in?
H

 

[Move2CLT]

Still no answer...only more questions from you.

Are you voting against Eric in the Primary?

Simple Yes or No. 3 messages and you still cannot reply. I understand, you don't actually know yet..you have not been "told" yet how to vote.

RR

Anyone want to help him figure it out?

 

[fifidriver]

Off the cuff..

Sending the NAC into the room with the Company without a Professional Negotiator.

Agreeing to meet with Parker short notice over the UAL merger without consulting the entire BPR, or the Treasurer.

Meeting with Eric Ferguson over "lunch in Texas" without informing the entire BPR or two of the Officers and discussing a seniority compromise.

The President never signing an office lease and working against the majority vote of the BPR daily in everything office related.

The VP faking an email from within the Seham firm to continue the receipt of sexual favors from his "fired Seham" attorney

The President and VP ignoring the gravity of Kubik's Safety survey and stealing it for an illegal job action, putting us all under an injunction...and no change in the flawed safety culture.

My fingers grow tired. Really. You don't need any more.

RR

No, I don't. Thanks... I see what you are saying. I was only looking at it from a very narrow perspective.

 

[Pi brat]

Another proves my point...it's fine when easties paint all westies with the worst they can find but how dare anyone do that to easties. Maybe you can tell Claxon you're offended by his avatar...oh, never mind - he supports easties so it's ok

Jim

I really don't get you. That statement is not true, or at least not completely true. I explained to you about Nos/Sum. There is a difference in calling someone a scab, drug runner and calling them a child molester. At least there is for most people, maybe you don't think child molestation is that bad? You are obviously an intelligent person and lots of people speak highly of you, but I don't get it.

Here are a few post that contradict you:



"Pi brat, on 11 May 2011 - 08:21 AM, said:
Sum,

I've not responded to your posts because of my frustration with some west posters, but I'm going to throw this out. I actually have several friends on the west and there in not a scab, drug runner, drunk flying pilot among them. The are professional pilots, and although we disagree on the Nic, we agree on most things. When you insult my friends you are insulting me.

I didn't like it when Jim and jettz called me a child molester. West pilots don't like it either. I think that's why you do it, but I don't think you are doing your cause any good with the method.


BoeingBoy, on 19 May 2011 - 08:07 AM, said:
As I've said, the easties don't like being treated like Nosum treats the westies, myself, Jetz, etc - find the worst of the group and hang that accusation on everyone in the group. When (really if) Nos apologizes I'll do the same. Note that at that time, no one on the East had tried to rein Nosum in or even chastised him for his behavior. In fact, when Jetz hit him with the pedo broad brush, easties came to his defense and I warned that if the east was content with Nosum playing that game they would get the same from me. As I expected, you and others didn't like that broad brush applied to yourselves. As Nosum would say, you're a bunch of hypocrites.

Jim


Posted 08 March 2011 - 11:04 PM


Jim, I didn't do those things to you. It seems that you feel you are so lofty that everyone should be there to take on anyone that dares speak to you in a manner that is not fitting. Guess what? Tons of crap are flung on this board everyday. Are we supposed to be protecting you from the bully? You're just not that special.
You stated that when Nos apologizes to you, you will apologize. So when someone that wronged you, you will apologize to the person you wronged, that had nothing to do with the first action. Great logic.

 

[Pi brat]

At the PHL meeting yesterday, man was that fun! Compass Correction boy's, with their tag team partners GARY HUMMEL, in promotion of REFORM USAPA, I think TORY VAUGHN was missing to help GARY H. out but it was fun! MM!

RR,

THIS is why I would like to see name associated with various boards. I have never seen Compass correction or Gary Hummel involved with reformUSAPA. As for T.V., I believe he ended his participation with this group. As this stuff gets thrown around and it's hard to keep track.

Now, MM, where did you get this info? Why do you feel Gary is involved with reformUSAPA? His name is not listed on their web page. I believe you posted a letter from Mike Cleary to Gary Hummel the other day. Where did you get that and what was your motivation for posting it?

I think USAPA screwed up not having a web board. I think they wanted to control the message, but what it has led to is guys looking for other avenues to express their views and find information. There are too many places, usually biased, and sometimes the information is really just rumors. We need one secure site run by the union, with secure sign in and posting under your real name.