US Pilots Labor Discussion

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Leaving this legal flight plan on autopilot by using the 9th/SCOTUS as the next segments regardless of the legal merits is foolhardy.

If a judgement is rendered in the DJ which is clear and decisive, and contrary to USAPA's position, someone needs to hit the disconnect button, take over manually and bring this dispute to an end.

Such a leader will not be popular to many, but he'll have my respect. This union doesn't need someone to simply kick the can down the road.

How's that for mixing metaphors :blink:

1984,
Question for you......what will you say when USAPA prevails in PHX?MM

 

[Piedmont1984]

1984,
Question for you......what will you say when USAPA prevails in PHX?MM

After I recover from my shock, I will say I was wrong. I would then urge both sides of the SLI dispute to sit down, once again, and try to reach a consensual compromise with the east moving off DOH and the west moving off NIC.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

After I recover from my shock, I will say I was wrong. I would then urge both sides of the SLI dispute to sit down, once again, and try to reach a consensual compromise with the east moving off DOH and the west moving off NIC.

Ok, thanks...MM

 

[cleardirect]

fodase,
You are so far off base. Cleary and the boys brought in the real experts on the RLA. We went DCA on you. MM over and out!

Really! Who is the RLA expert that the boys brought in? O'Dwyer is a labor expert not an RLA expert. The other guy worked for the teamsters again labor not RLA.

Would you care to post their resume?

 

[prechilill]

After I recover from my shock, I will say I was wrong. I would then urge both sides of the SLI dispute to sit down, once again, and try to reach a consensual compromise with the east moving off DOH and the west moving off NIC.

The NIC is the compromise. You can't have 80% of the captain upgrades and call that fair either. Fairness, if anything, comes from a neutral third party - your side drove us straight into arbitration with your refusal to ever come off of DOH, now you want a do-over because you self- declared the arbitrator senile and his ruling as unfair. Nice. How do we know you won't do the same thing again?
And now Bradford wants to "work with the west" according to stretch man Reed... GOD! Have to laugh at that one. Where was his cooperation four years ago??? Back then it was the "we don't need the west to get a contract". How's that working for him? Answer is pretty obvious to us all.

Here is the clliff notes version Driver, you guys pissed all over us these past four years so we (west) have no problem not giving you a hand to help yourselves out of your bankruptcy contract. Legally it is impossible for the west to negotiate anyway because Bradford eliminated the West MEC so your "call for compromise" is strictly a voice of emotion and regret. You (pl) created your own mess, the DJ (at a minimum) will have to be seen all the way through. It's funny how your NAC boys can't figure this out.

 

[Piedmont1984]

The NIC is the compromise. You can't have 80% of the captain upgrades and call that fair either. Fairness, if anything, comes from a neutral third party - your side drove us straight into arbitration with your refusal to ever come off of DOH, now you want a do-over because you self- declared the arbitrator senile and his ruling as unfair. Nice. How do we know you won't do the same thing again?
And now Bradford wants to "work with the west" according to stretch man Reed... GOD! Have to laugh at that one. Where was his cooperation four years ago??? Back then it was the "we don't need the west to get a contract". How's that working for him? Answer is pretty obvious to us all.

Here is the clliff notes version Driver, you guys pissed all over us these past four years so we (west) have no problem not giving you a hand to help yourselves out of your bankruptcy contract. Legally it is impossible for the west to negotiate anyway because Bradford eliminated the West MEC so your "call for compromise" is strictly a voice of emotion and regret. You (pl) created your own mess, the DJ (at a minimum) will have to be seen all the way through. It's funny how your NAC boys can't figure this out.

I will pass your sentiments on to Driver if I see him 🙂

MM asked what would I say if USAPA won in PHX. Let me speculate that Ferguson would say it's time to compromise on the compromise fellas.

 

[fifidriver]

Leaving this legal flight plan on autopilot by using the 9th/SCOTUS as the next segments regardless of the legal merits is foolhardy.

If a judgement is rendered in the DJ which is clear and decisive, and contrary to USAPA's position, someone needs to hit the disconnect button, take over manually and bring this dispute to an end.

Such a leader will not be popular to many, but he'll have my respect. This union doesn't need someone to simply kick the can down the road.

How's that for mixing metaphors :blink:

Nicely done!!! To extend the metaphor: No need to disconnect the A/P, just reprogram the MCDU (or MCU). The destination (KDOH) is closed, permanently! Line select 2L Input KNIC in "new dest" [ ]. We are going to the provisional airport sooner or later. Why burn up all our "fuel" in the hold? We are also using up our allotted "flight time". Can you imagine the NTSB report on this fiasco? How's that for mangling metaphors?

 

[fifidriver]

After I recover from my shock, I will say I was wrong. I would then urge both sides of the SLI dispute to sit down, once again, and try to reach a consensual compromise with the east moving off DOH and the west moving off NIC.

Although I would give that scenario only a "snowball's" chance, if.... Judge Silver were to absolve the company of obligation and liability, why not seriously pursue a realistic joint contract utilizing both East and West reps that benefits all, and incorporates the best of both contracts. Compensation notwithstanding, our agreement isn't all that bad. That would allow the West to file a hybrid DFR, let the dust settle, and see where it all lands. At least that way, we are not mired in the mediocrity of commuter compensation while this thing meanders through the court system at glacial speeds.

 

[Move2CLT]

Let me speculate that Ferguson would say it's time to compromise on the compromise fellas.

Ummmmmm, no.

Are you new to the boards?

 

[Move2CLT]

Leaving this legal flight plan on autopilot by using the 9th/SCOTUS as the next segments regardless of the legal merits is foolhardy.

If a judgement is rendered in the DJ which is clear and decisive, and contrary to USAPA's position, someone needs to hit the disconnect button, take over manually and bring this dispute to an end.

Such a leader will not be popular to many, but he'll have my respect. This union doesn't need someone to simply kick the can down the road.

How's that for mixing metaphors :blink:

So if you were said leader, what would you do to bring this to an end under your scenario?

 

[Pi brat]

Let me speculate that Ferguson would say it's time to compromise on the compromise fellas.

'84,

You have got to be kidding. Or was that a typo? EF has been no compromise from day one. His statement about not supporting a recall of Cleary because he was best for the west says it all.

 

[Phoenix]

Leaving this legal flight plan on autopilot by using the 9th/SCOTUS as the next segments regardless of the legal merits is foolhardy.

Please explain why anyone would capitulate to their legal opponent when the SCOTUS has already upheld the right of USAPA to bargain?

 

[Phoenix]

You got to be F'n kidding me. You and the other easties that voted usapa in are to blame, no one else. Stupid clowns.

Hi Fodase. I respectfully ask for your assistance in deciding who I should vote for.

Who would be most demoralizing to you?

 

[Piedmont1984]

'84,

You have got to be kidding. Or was that a typo? EF has been no compromise from day one. His statement about not supporting a recall of Cleary because he was best for the west says it all.

Pi

I didn't hear Cleary talking of compromise either, not a hint, right up until the day he offered the very same to Ferguson.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Please explain why anyone would capitulate to their legal opponent when the SCOTUS has already upheld the right of USAPA to bargain?

Well there is a tremendous leap in logic and misunderstanding. The SCOTUS didn't tell USAPA anything. They decided not to hear the case which happens far more frequently than them accepting a case. The Ninth ruling didn't get past the ripeness issue. Don't believe me, then look at the Company's Statement of Fact filing from 1/27/2012:

Ultimately, the claims against US Airways were dismissed for lack of jurisdiction
and the claims against USAPA went to trial. (Sep. Stmnt. ¶ 40.) At trial, the jury found
that USAPA had violated its DFR to the West Pilot class because it “cast aside the result
of an internal seniority arbitration solely to benefit East Pilots at the expense of West
Pilots,” and “failed to prove that any legitimate union objective motivated its acts.” (Sep.
Stmnt. ¶ 41.) On appeal, the Ninth Circuit did not reach the merits of the West Pilots’
DFR claim against USAPA, but instead held that their claim was not ripe. (Sep. Stmnt.
¶ 42.)

pg. 9

The only time the merits of the case were objectively and impartially reviewed in a federal court the outcome was that "USAPA had violated its DFR to the West Pilot class because it “cast aside the result of an internal seniority arbitration solely to benefit East Pilots at the expense of West Pilots,” and “failed to prove that any legitimate union objective motivated its acts.” "

That's the information Silver will be evaluating when she decides is a summary judgement is warranted in this case. That is merits = DFR. Ripeness is not a concern to Silver because there are vastly different standards for ripeness on a DJ matter than there were for the Addington matter.