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I didn't hear Cleary talking of compromise either, not a hint, right up until the day he offered the very same to Ferguson.

No, they were in the same boat. But, 99% of the west pilots I have talked to say the Nic is it, live with. I believe that will be their positions until the SCOTUS says otherwise, no matter how long it takes or what it costs. The big question is does the east really feel the same way? The west is betting they don't. I don't know, but I do see value in getting a definitive answer from the last stop. Otherwise we will place blame back and worth for the rest of our careers, just as we have with LOA 93.

We may get an answer from Judge Silver that forces the company to really say what they are thinking. Unfortunately that will be after the election, so I will be making my decision base on who can lead the best, not what they will do with the Nic.
 
Well there is a tremendous leap in logic and misunderstanding. The SCOTUS didn't tell USAPA anything. They decided not to hear the case which happens far more frequently than them accepting a case. The Ninth ruling didn't get past the ripeness issue. Don't believe me, then look at the Company's Statement of Fact filing from 1/27/2012:

pg. 9

The only time the merits of the case were objectively and impartially reviewed in a federal court the outcome was that "USAPA had violated its DFR to the West Pilot class because it “cast aside the result of an internal seniority arbitration solely to benefit East Pilots at the expense of West Pilots,” and “failed to prove that any legitimate union objective motivated its acts.” "

That's the information Silver will be evaluating when she decides is a summary judgement is warranted in this case. That is merits = DFR. Ripeness is not a concern to Silver because there are vastly different standards for ripeness on a DJ matter than there were for the Addington matter.

Cg,

I believe you came out predicting that Silver would go with count 1, the company has to use the Nic. If that is correct, what would happen if the a TA keeps getting voted down due to the inability of the company to pay enough to make enough pilot on both sides to vote for it? Say we really do vote a TA down 3 times and the company really can't come up with more cash. Our hands are tied, what then?
 
Please explain why anyone would capitulate to their legal opponent when the SCOTUS has already upheld the right of USAPA to bargain?

Moving off DOH is not capitulation. Waiting for the SCOTUS to possibly hear our appeal is not a victory for those who will have retired off LOA93 in the meantime - F/O's included. By the time a judgement is reached in the DJ we will have enjoyed a virtual 7 year fence.

Please explain to me what the SCOTUS specifically said regarding USAPA.

Or better yet, I'll reread the USAPA legal library on the matter and will stand myself corrected if I am misinformed.
 
Cg,

I believe you came out predicting that Silver would go with count 1, the company has to use the Nic. If that is correct, what would happen if the a TA keeps getting voted down due to the inability of the company to pay enough to make enough pilot on both sides to vote for it? Say we really do vote a TA down 3 times and the company really can't come up with more cash. Our hands are tied, what then?
Yes, I did predict that count 1 was the only logical ruling Silver could make. Will she be logical, I don't know but she certainly seems to be no-nonsense in her approach to moving the case forward in a legal context. So, while I'm not saying I know or am 100% certain what she will do, I do think that accepting count 1 is far and away the most likely ruling she will make.

If and when it is legally affirmed that the NIC is the only list for S22, then the courts will be out of the process. Assuming that happens and USAPA reaches a NIC-inclusive TA with Management, then the process is no different than if there was no seniority dispute at all. If the MIGS reject the TA, then it goes back to mediated negotiations. If the mediator determines that negotiations have reached an impasse, the parties will either get parked or released to self-help. That's all the RLA allows for and if the issue is one that no one in the process has any control over (seniority), then the outcome will be parked in status quo or self-help. However, I have serious doubts that the east pilots would be able to amass enough support to prevent the TA from passing under that scenario. Ten years is a long time to go without any contract improvements and holding out for the unattainable will be the mindset of only a few zealots once that scenario is staring them in the face. That's the way I see it anyway.
 
Please explain why anyone would capitulate to their legal opponent when the SCOTUS has already upheld the right of USAPA to bargain?

Really?? Have you been listening to James (I scabbed Continental) Ray??

The SCOTUS has never commented on anything usapa.

However, the 9th has warned usapa that if they make it "unquestionably ripe", that there is plenty of SCOTUS precedence that usapa will "suffer the pain".

Also, the West is not usapa's "legal opponent". The West is merely a very large portion of the class for which usapa has the right (and duty) to bargain. And, yes there are many SCOTUS rulings on what that means, and it means it does not look good for the little lawyers failed strategy.
 
Moving off DOH is not capitulation. Waiting for the SCOTUS to possibly hear our appeal is not a victory for those who will have retired off LOA93 in the meantime - F/O's included. By the time a judgement is reached in the DJ we will have enjoyed a virtual 7 year fence.

Please explain to me what the SCOTUS specifically said regarding USAPA.

Or better yet, I'll reread the USAPA legal library on the matter and will stand myself corrected if I am misinformed.

I find it incredibly interesting that the most level headed east posters are those who do the research on their own and have a much better grasp of what is going on than the zealots.

One suggestion. If your only source is from usapa, take it with a grain of salt, because they like to interject false info and conclusions in their communications.
 
NAC Update: February 1, 2012

The NAC, along with Professional Negotiator Scott Petersen, met in New York City last week for the latest NMB-mediated negotiating session. We presented Sections 27 HEALTH AND WELFARE BENEFITS and 28 RETIREMENT. And while the Company had every other section on their side of the table, they refused to make a single proposal. In fact, since June USAPA has made 29 proposals and the Company only 11. Coincidently, during the same June meeting, both sides were advised by NMB Board Member Elizabeth Dougherty that we needed to make more progress or we would probably be taking a break. That's all the Company needed to hear.

The session began with a very short sidebar discussion on Section 10, COVERED PILOTS. However, when Management was unwilling to move away from their "new" position, which would permit Covered Pilots the ability to select pairings out of seniority before the Primary Line process, we determined that there was no sense in engaging the Company. Like we told them, out of seniority pairing awards are not going to happen.

Along with members of the Retirement & Insurance and Grievance Committees, we began the week by presenting Section 28. While administrative issues were settled in this section, we still remain apart on the major issues of DC contribution levels, contributions for those on LTD, and fees for operating the retirement plan.

The week concluded in discussing Section 27. During this session, Management basically had one foot out the door the entire time, not being able to wait to get out of town. They kept trying to hurry the process along so they could catch their flight back to PHX. In spite of hearing "OK -- we got it, let's move along" numerous times, we presented our proposal on health benefits. As we stated in previous updates, we had earlier agreed to the bulk of Management's proposals in this section and had only asked for a minor item in return but were rebuffed. Since they did not see our offer as being helpful (not Kirby), we have withdrawn that one, and in exchange for agreeing to their proposal, we have proposed that the Company continue to pay for basic vision benefits for pilots as they do for West pilots today. Other than that, we still have a major disagreement over the LTD program, with the main focus being the oppressive offsets to LTD benefits. Once again Management seems to have little regard for pilots who have the unfortunate experience of having to rely on LTD benefits. To them, sick pilots are nothing more than an annoying cost. Other open items include retiree health care, survivor benefits and life insurance benefits.

The tone of discussions during this session was cordial, but it appeared to us that they were disinterested, not engaged, and would rather have been anywhere else than sitting across the table from us. This was evidenced throughout the week by two of their "negotiators" spending most of the time playing with an iPad and their hired consultant with his face buried in his computer working on something other than pilot negotiations; real contributors to the process.

We are disappointed that the NMB appears to have rewarded Management for their bad behavior and delay tactics. Unfortunately, Management got their wish with the NMB's decision to take a break in negotiations. Among other things, we suspect this break occurred as a result of heavy lobbying by their "consultant." Is it possible his White House connection is paying off? Let's follow the logic:

US Airways hires a negotiating consultant. The negotiating consultant is a lifelong friend of David Axelrod. David Axelrod is a top advisor to President Obama. President Obama appoints the National Mediation Board members. The National Mediation Board controls the negotiating timeline. The National Mediation Board decides to have USAPA and US Airways take a break from negotiations. US Airways saves tens of millions.

We don't believe this is how the process was designed to work, but we have no choice but to deal with it. As we have said many times, it doesn't matter who is sitting across the table; until they are ready to make a deal, their answer will continue to be NO.

At the conclusion of the session the mediator reminded us that we were free to negotiate without the supervision of the NMB. To that end, we requested to continue our monthly negotiating sessions. We are awaiting their response. In the meantime, we are planning to once again poll the pilot group and are also in the process of scheduling domicile meetings to discuss recent developments, solicit your input, and answer any questions.

AFA TENTATIVE AGREEMENT

As you know, AFA reached a tentative agreement on Friday, January 27, 2012, only 27 days beyond the amendable date for East flight attendants. While not official as of this update, it appears that AFA secured an industry standard/leading contract in many key areas including pay and vacation. I guess the "we can't pay you anything close to your peers because we suffer from a revenue disadvantage" argument continuously spouted by the brain trust applies only to the pilots.

Finally, January's mediation session may have been Scott Petersen's final session as USAPA's professional negotiator. As you know, Scott has been with us since the very beginning. In fact, Scott was in place prior to the first NAC member ever being elected. We very much valued his counsel and will miss the institutional knowledge that comes with almost four years of bargaining. On behalf of US Airways pilots, thank you Scott for all your hard work as well as your unwavering dedication to this process.


Paul DiOrio - Chairman
704-340-5098
pdiorio@usairlinepilots.org

Dean Colello
704-307-9768
dcolello@usairlinepilots.org

Or reach us both at: NAC@usairlinepilots.org


PIC Update: February 1, 2012

Dear Pilots of the Former US Airways Pension Plan,

On Tuesday, January 24, USAPA Communications published an update reporting on the BPR's Telephonic Meeting conducted on Monday, January 23. In the update it was reported that the BPR did not approve a motion requested by this committee calling for approval of a contract with Peter Bell for a forensic audit of the Pension Investigation Committee Income and Expenses.

Here is the history leading up to our audit request:

In September 2011 the BPR asked the PIC for a report and "audit" of the PIC expenses. In connection with the preparation of this report, we found that the income and expense statements shifted several times from September 2011 to date.

Prior to July 2010, the PIC assessment was kept in a separate bank account allowing for easy accountability. Afterwards, deposits were consolidated into the General Funds Account, making it far more difficult to reconcile income;.

We have concerns that the committee was double billed even after the numbers were considered "audited" by the retained USAPA auditor of the overall union budget.
We believe that the current USAPA annual audit done each January does not adequately address our concerns.

At the December 13 BPR Conference Call, the BPR passed the following resolution (excerpt):

Therefore be it resolved that the President will find a suitable firm to audit the PIC accounts and will present that firm to the Board for approval at the next meeting.

USAPA Pension Investigation Committee (PIC) Chairmen have concerns regarding the accounting of finances of the PIC and hopes the BPR will approve an independent audit firm soon as our work narrows to a close.

You should know the following: Your PIC is trying very hard to get you more money for your retirement. We are doing this through lawsuits and new legislation introduced in Congress. Your PIC is fiercely defensive about your assessment dollars -- not simply how it is used, but accounted for as well.

On a different note, once again we are asking that if you haven't sent your letters to your senators and congressmen concerning the Pilots Equitable Fair Treatment Act (S998 and HR1867) please do so ASAP. Easily done by email, simply draft your language in a Word file. Your letter should include at least the following:

1) "I support the Bill and urge you to co-sponsor the Bill."

2) "I am a US Airways Pilot and also a member of USAPA/CAPA."

3) The Bill name and number: Pilots Equitable Fair Treatment Act (S998 & H.R. 1867)

4) "This Bill won't take taxpayer dollars, but instead will be funded by private sector premiums."

5) Keep it short, sweet and non-emotional.

6) Ask for a response.

7) You do not have to explain what the bill is about. They know.

Once you have formatted your letter, Google "U.S. Senators and Congressmen" (we suggest: www.usa.gov) and you will be presented with all the email links. Fill out the form(s), copy and paste your doc in the comment section, and away you go. We cannot stress how important this is. Not only should you as a US Airways pilot write this letter, but you should get any voting constituent you can, including wife, child, parents, and friends to write this letter as well.

Thank you for your comments of support!

F/O Dave Westberg, Chairman
Capt. Dave Koseruba, Co-Chairman
 
..........

One suggestion. If your only source is from usapa, take it with a grain of salt, because they like to interject false info and conclusions in their communications.

The usapa legal library is briefs, filings, and so forth without any update spin. Although I suppose there could be some slight manipulation by leaving select things out. The 4th Circuit upholding the Rico dismissal with predjudice is not there, for example. I don't know if any other strategic omisssions are there or not though.

I think 1984 is a good sort, using his head and not taking anything from anyone as gospel. I saw a west poster knock him for a very level headed post because he was supposedly just an east guy that brought us usapa and that was that. With all due respect to that west poster, I'd suggest stopping, taking a deep breath and look a little deeper.
 
Unlike USAPA ALPA complied with the Transition Agreement and had three East and West pilots on the JNC. The JNC had about 85% of the pilot's new contract complete over four years ago. In the spring of 2008 Scott Kirby joined the discussions, which began the "close out" phase to reach a TA.

Kirby provided the JNC the company's initial comprehensive proposal. In addition, Lyle Hogg told me the Board had authorized him to offer an additonal 3% pay raise to counter the ALPA JNC pay response and former MEC Chairman Jack Stephan tetified under oath at the Addington trial the company was willing to offer another 7% to 10% in pay raises over the West rates (this would have given East pilots a 21% to 24% raise over four years ago).

When USAPA was elected as the pilot's Union the NAC was created consisting of three former furloughees, Paul DiOrio, Dean Collelo, and Jeff Davis, un TA'ed the entire contract.

To read a detailed side by side comprehensive comparison of what USAPA gave up from ALPA negotiations click here.

And, to review actual ALPA documents on contract discussions click here and then look at entry numbers 211, 212, 215, 217, 218, 220, 221, 222, and 223.
 
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