US Pilots Labor Discussion

[prechilill]

Oh we missed you. So, what contract will you be under then? Since you are so smart and all.

C2004, we are stuck on it because of idiots like you. But that's life, I care little about it because we have no control over it - eventually karma will correct the injustice with a 330 award! 🙂

 

[Pi brat]

C2004, we are stuck on it because of idiots like you. But that's life, I care little about it because we have no control over it - eventually karma will correct the injustice with a 330 award! 🙂

Oh you victim you. With our group by the time that happens your 330 will pay less than a Mesa CRJ. Winning! With logic like that I can see why AWA picked you.

 

[prechilill]

Oh you victim you. With our group by the time that happens your 330 will pay less than a Mesa CRJ. Winning! With logic like that I can see why AWA picked you.

Yeah, had to interview and all at AWA- my dad didn't work there so I had to actually be competitive and earn a new hire slot. How about you???

 

[Pi brat]

Yeah, had to interview and all at AWA- my dad didn't work there so I had to actually be competitive and earn a new hire slot. How about you???

Me? I never had any desire to work for AWA. From your posts, I'd say you lied well, or they were idiots too. You like those smileys almost as much as Uncle Jim.

 

[Claxon]

You just proved the point of my statement you quoted.

I said the east pilot look at the West pilots position and career in the company and say they want what the West pilots have.

You just agreed with my point that the east pilots do not look at their careers but the West pilots position and careers, and said "the east guys watching the West guys move up at a faster rate than they would have". But, this begs the question of,, move up at a faster rate than they would have assuming what?? A faster rate than they would have assuming the east pilots were allowed to take the West pilots positions?? or did you mean a totally immeasurable "move up faster than they would have" stand alone AWA??

I don't move up at a rate "faster than I would have". As a matter of fact, given that my relative position was substantially degraded, I need to move up at a faster rate, just to get back to the relative position I formerly held.

My mechanic makes way more than you and has much better blood pressure. Face it western. You totally screwed up. He makes way more twisting lug nuts and complains nowhere near what you do. sad

 

[Pi brat]

If you are going to to tie your balloon strings to any airline CEO over the past decade, Parker would be your number one or number two choice if you are thinking objectively.

What was that saying a few years ago? Oh yeah, "Keep Delta My Delta". They weren't feeling the love for Parker you feel. But then again I remember you wonderful post on how DL screwed up not taking Parker's deal.

There was something out today about the water in PHX. I guess AMR isn't feeling the love either. Yeah, yeah, I know. It's just because of us mean old easties.

 

[prechilill]

Me? I never had any desire to work for AWA. From your posts, I'd say you lied well, or they were idiots too. You like those smileys almost as much as Uncle Jim.

Who were idiots?

 

[N924PS]

No, he got screwed and YOU got that windfall. Just like the one you got at PSA. You are just mad that you can't claim your windfall of shortening your commute, something that we can pretty much all agree that probably wasn't going to happen again for you at your age.

I suppose a windfall is in the eye of the beholder. I guess Kagel and Nicolau were cut from the same bolt of senile cloth.

Mainly I'm mad because I have been working under LOA 93 for nearly 8 years, been represented by USAPA for nearly 4 years, and after millions of dollars spent by both sides over the Nicolau Award - no closer to a new contract than 4 years ago. Probably worse off since the USAPA Rocket Scientists decided to reopen EVERY section of the contract that had been previously closed.

Unllike you, and as you are so delighted to point out to geezers like myself and BB, I am chronologically challenged, as are many of my peers. The sand will run through the hourglass, and the last 10 years of my career will have been spent on LOA 93.

 

[Claxon]

I suppose a windfall is in the eye of the beholder. I guess Kagel and Nicolau were cut from the same bolt of senile cloth.

Mainly I'm mad because I have been working under LOA 93 for nearly 8 years, been represented by USAPA for nearly 4 years, and after millions of dollars spent by both sides over the Nicolau Award - no closer to a new contract than 4 years ago. Probably worse off since the USAPA Rocket Scientists decided to reopen EVERY section of the contract that had been previously closed.

Unllike you, and as you are so delighted to point out to geezers like myself and BB, I am chronologically challenged, as are many of my peers. The sand will run through the hourglass, and the last 10 years of my career will have been spent on LOA 93.

For a guy that got hired the day before his 21st Birthday, with almost 26 years LOS, and 18 years left to fly (and maybe more if they change the retirement age again!), I'd say you don't have much to complain about, really. No doubt you will retire very senior and flying the A350, regardless of the outcome of Leonidas vs. USAPA.

I bet you voted for LOA 93. Most of the PSA did. Some of the weakest after the Franke group. Pretty sad PS........

 

[Piedmont1984]

Seems to me that this election will closely resemble the representational election of 2008, at least as far as the principle issue is concerned. Yes there are issues about governance, leadership style, the union's relationship with other entities such as management and other labor groups, etc. But the overriding issue is still the NIC. Should we continue to fight or delay it, or begin to accept it.

What goes on in the courts can be prolonged for a number of additional years, thus extending the virtual fence between east and west, aka separate operations.

If the majority still feels that is the best way then so be it. But the cost is LOA93. So lets stop bitching about bottom of the barrel pay and a lack of an industry standard contract.

Provided we remain a stand alone carrier, those over the age of about 55 will spend most of their remaining (actuarial) years on LOA93. For those over about 59 - this is as good as it gets. The cost of delaying the NIC is LOA93, end of story.

If some court ever throws the NIC out, I will eat collard greens for a straight week, no seasoning.

KV

 

[N924PS]

I bet you voted for LOA 93. Most of the PSA did. Some of the weakest after the Franke group. Pretty sad PS........

No you moron. I didn't vote for LOA 93 nor did any of my PSA buddies that I know of.

Now crawl back under your rock, Claxon, or whichever one of your multiple pseudonyms you choose to use.

 

[Pi brat]

I suppose a windfall is in the eye of the beholder. I guess Kagel and Nicolau were cut from the same bolt of senile cloth.

Mainly I'm mad because I have been working under LOA 93 for nearly 8 years, been represented by USAPA for nearly 4 years, and after millions of dollars spent by both sides over the Nicolau Award - no closer to a new contract than 4 years ago. Probably worse off since the USAPA Rocket Scientists decided to reopen EVERY section of the contract that had been previously closed.

Unlike you, and as you are so delighted to point out to geezers like myself and BB, I am chronologically challenged, as our many of my peers. The sand will run through the hourglass, and the last 10 years of my career will have been spent on LOA 93.

For a guy that got hired the day before his 21st Birthday, with almost 26 years LOS, and 18 years left to fly (and maybe more if they change the retirement age again!), I'd say you don't have much to complain about, really. No doubt you will retire very senior and flying the A350, regardless of the outcome of Leonidas vs. USAPA.

Yeah, I'd agree that it is in the eye of the beholder and rarely does the recipient feel they received one. With the flick of a pen you got another 5 years at the top of the heap and our guys at the bottom got 5 more years there. Was that a windfall for you?

I'm mad about what has happened too. It just that I blame us all. WE should have found another solution.

Many times I've said on here that the nic doesn't damage me that much because of the age that I was hired. It was for that reason and the fact that I didn't think USAPA's plan would work, I voted for ALPA. I told my west friends that if we didn't do something else USAPA would win, and we would spend years and year fighting this and then live with it for the rest of my careers. Yours is coming to an end, mine isn't, but yet this food fight that both sides have participated in will haunt me for the rest of my career.

I sat in the right seat for you and many of other PSA guys and waited my turn, as did a lot of guys more junior and older than me. How dare they expect to move up as you did, and keep you from getting you a little(very little with the Kirby) raise.

You really surprised me. I never saw it in you and I thought I was a good judge of character.

 

[Pi brat]

Seems to me that this election will closely resemble the representational election of 2008, at least as far as the principle issue is concerned. Yes there are issues about governance, leadership style, the union's relationship with other entities such as management and other labor groups, etc. But the overriding issue is still the NIC. Should we continue to fight or delay it, or begin to accept it.

What goes on in the courts can be prolonged for a number of additional years, thus extending the virtual fence between east and west, aka separate operations.

If the majority still feels that is the best way then so be it. But the cost is LOA93. So lets stop bitching about bottom of the barrel pay and a lack of an industry standard contract.

Provided we remain a stand alone carrier, those over the age of about 55 will spend most of their remaining (actuarial) years on LOA93. For those over about 59 - this is as good as it gets. The cost of delaying the NIC is LOA93, end of story.

If some court ever throws the NIC out, I will eat collard greens for a straight week, no seasoning.

KV

Do you think that any west candidate will sign a blood oath that if Silver should say that the company has to negotiate they will not fight it anymore? If so I will certainly consider them.

 

[CallawayGolf]

What was that saying a few years ago? Oh yeah, "Keep Delta My Delta". They weren't feeling the love for Parker you feel. But then again I remember you wonderful post on how DL screwed up not taking Parker's deal.

There was something out today about the water in PHX. I guess AMR isn't feeling the love either. Yeah, yeah, I know. It's just because of us mean old easties.

Pride and ignorance seem to be a hallmark of way too many people in this country. Those are the main reasons why there was a keep my Delta campaign. Lee Moak was a pure opportunist only interested in taking the national spotlight and going all in to make a name for himself. IMO he couldn't care less what happend to Delta or the pilots he was supposed to be speaking for. If he was interested in creating a valuable and competitive company able to face the challenges of the precarious airline industry, he would have actually looked at the US offer and seen that this was far better for his company than any stand-alone plan. There was no way to know at that point that a merger with NW was a real possibility and if that transaction had not happened Delta would likely have been in big trouble since their stand-alone reorganization plan was rather anemic. The Parker deal would have infused significant cash into the business and would have given the merged (acquired combined airline) significant pricing power in a marker plagued by over competition and terrible margins in comparison to other successful industries. The DL/NW merger didn't infuse any new cash into the two airlines and there was very little pricing power gained in the transaction in comparison to the US/DL plan. So they gained a little bit of overall health and staying power, but nothing compared to what might have been with Doug leading the way.

The east pilots' intransigence regarding their contractual obligations certainly didn't help the DL, UA, or AA merger plans of US over the years, but I never said it was all their (your) fault. It's a factor to be sure, but it is not the only reason. Mergers are uncomfortable for executives, shareholders, employees and customers so it's no wonder that these groups often let fear and ignorance guide them rather than facts, reason, and objective evaluations. If US executives and the unsecured creditors would have had any other choice back in 2005, they may have well passed in the AWA merger too and thus sealed the ultimate demise of your former stand alone company.

 

[Claxon]

I suppose a windfall is in the eye of the beholder. I guess Kagel and Nicolau were cut from the same bolt of senile cloth.

Mainly I'm mad because I have been working under LOA 93 for nearly 8 years, been represented by USAPA for nearly 4 years, and after millions of dollars spent by both sides over the Nicolau Award - no closer to a new contract than 4 years ago. Probably worse off since the USAPA Rocket Scientists decided to reopen EVERY section of the contract that had been previously closed.

Unllike you, and as you are so delighted to point out to geezers like myself and BB, I am chronologically challenged, as are many of my peers. The sand will run through the hourglass, and the last 10 years of my career will have been spent on LOA 93.

For a guy that got hired the day before his 21st Birthday, with almost 26 years LOS, and 18 years left to fly (and maybe more if they change the retirement age again!), I'd say you don't have much to complain about, really. No doubt you will retire very senior and flying the A350, regardless of the outcome of Leonidas vs. USAPA.

The weakest group were treated fairly by AAA and now this moron wants to redo his list after his group was the beneficiary of the fairest treatment. No wonder that Cali is such a wacky western state. What do they teach you kids out there in wacky land? No wonder OJ got off. Nobody has any sense!