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US Pilots Labor Discussion

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Have you not seen the company filings they tell Judge Silver to look over the Addington case for guidance well worth $2 million
Good luck on that, sport.

Every other time I go through PHX, I end up getting at least one person fired. I am up to fourteen. Can we say, Arizonians are, for the most part, fracking idiots? Maybe it is the water. <sigh> We have idiots scamming the cash flow off this "company" and employees too stupid to figure out they are being scammed each day.
 
Good luck on that, sport.

Every other time I go through PHX, I end up getting at least one person fired. I am up to fourteen. Can we say, Arizonians are, for the most part, fracking idiots? Maybe it is the water. <sigh> We have idiots scamming the cash flow off this "company" and employees too stupid to figure out they are being scammed each day.
Ya, OK tough guy.

Whatever you say.
 
Have you not seen the
company filings they tell Judge Silver to look over the Addington case for guidance well worth $2 million
AS they should, but hey the 9th tossed it! As USAPA points out why in their filings, contribute on! MM!
 
Oscar,

Thanks for your response. You claim that I got so many things wrong, but then don't really point out much by way of any error in my statement. For example, I never mentioned the MD-88s one way or the other but you claim that must have forgot that part. I think you are making more assumptions on this point than I am. While the US proposal certainly did include the reduction of redundancies and unnecessary assets (as it should have), neither you not Moak could possibly project the meaning of that to the pilot group(s) once the merger was complete. The pilot SLI would have to be competed before anyone could determine if DL, US East, or US West pilots would be more or less impacted by the proposed Management changes. In the interim a pilot merger Transition Agreement would have been required and the DL pilots could seek protections for their group via that document. Was there a proposed TA with the pilots or are you just speculating as to what would happen under your worst-case scenario?

If you re-read my post I specifically said that the DL stand-alone reorganization plan was anemic, but you made a reference to the first year after the merger with NW. Those are two very different and incompatible statements. I personally believe that the DL/NW merger was far better for those two airlines, and the industry as a whole, than if both companies had remained separate. I also think that the US/Parker hostile takeover attempt played a non-insignificant part in having Anderson appointed to the BOD and subsequently selected to be CEO for the express purpose of facilitating a post-bankruptcy merger with NW. If I recall correctly, that was absolutely not Gerald Grinstein's plan for a successor and he (publicly) preferred no merger at all (my Delta and all). If Grinstein would have had his way (actual plan of reorganization), then your nice bonus checks would have been quite a bit different.

You say: "The DL/NW merger did not need any extra cash, we had over $6 billion in cash combined, why borrow more money when you don't need it." There are several problems with that statement. First, money invested from outside sources (stockholders) is not a liability (borrowing money) on the balance sheet. It is considered equity rather than debt and thus strengthens the overall health of the organization as opposed to debt which weakens the financial health of the organization. Second, having a total of $6 billion sounds impressive, but that most certainly does not tell the whole picture. According to DL's 2008 SEC financial reports, the combined airline lost $8.9 billion that year (not healthy) and it had $44 billion in total liabilities compared with $45 billion in total assets, or only $1 billion in total equity (Assets=Liabilities+Equity). In case you aren't aware, a 44:1 debt-to-equity ratio is really not good at all. The US/Parker proposal would have immediately pumped far more equity into the combined US/DL financials resulting in a healthier company on any objective measure.

Please show me where in my post I claimed that the DL/NW was a "failed merger". I'm just not seeing that denotatively or connotatively anywhere in my previous post.

Doug may make you shudder, but he is the longest currently-serving CEO among the major airlines and yet he has never led an airline into bankruptcy court and faced more challenges than all of his peers combined (9/11, merger of to majors, oil price spikes, worst recession since WWII among other challenges). The former CEOs of WN, AA, DL, and UA all bowed out in the last decade and were replaced, with the exception of Anderson, with CEOs new to that position and with far fewer trials by fire under their belts.

Well, your initial statement said that Lee Moak rejected the US Air merger out of ego and a desire to run for national office. Those weren't even remotely the reason why. You said that Delta's standalone plan was anemic and I told that 2007, our first year out of bankruptcy, a year before the NW merger we produced massive profits, hired 700 pilots, we added more international flights than US Airways has in total. If that is anemic then your definition is different than mine. So I wasn't talking about the first year after the merger, I was talking about the first year of our standalone plan.

I don't know if you saw Doug Parker's business plan for the DL/US merger but I did. I didn't have to guess or wait and see what he would do, he said it right up front, so there was no speculation, only reading and understanding. All the job losses were coming from Delta. As far as his offer, he was giving some US Airways stock but he also was borrowing several billion dollars as an incentive to the unsecured creditors. In the Delta/Northwest merger, it was simply a stock swap and we did not incur any more debt. If you issue more equity then you can raise cash, but you also dilute the rest of the shareholders. Delta pilots received about 55,000,000 shares of stock from the merger, my share is currently worth over $70,000, and thus we weren't anxious for the stock to be diluted.

When Delta lost 8.9 billion in one year about $8 billion was due to a writeoff of goodwill, which is a non cash intangible asset. To try to impute that as our actual performance is playing games with financial statements. As I recall, US Air had a substantial loss in 2008 as well.

As for Parker and Kirby, if you are happy with them, then please keep them. In my experience, Kirby is lying sack of poop. Parker couldn't produce a penny worth of profit at Airways without the labor advantage he has. All of the employees have decided that fighting each other is preferable than making a better living so Airways lives on the labor arbitrage. Airways merged in 2005, Delta in 2008. We are already about 2 or three years ahead of you in merger advantages, 3 years ahead of United, and at least 5 or 6 years ahead of American by the time they figure out what they are going to be.

I have no idea where Delta will end up in the next 12-18 months. I spoke to senior executives last week and it is clear they are on the prowl. They do not fear a merger of AA/US as there is tremendous overlap and frankly there is not much to Airways that is particularly useful to American. The Charlotte hub would be a focus city and DCA is an asset but neither is worth buying an entire airline for. I still think the greatest possibility is a fragmentation of either LCC (most likely) or AMR. Neither airline has a real future as a standalone network airline as they exist today. Delta and United are too big, too connected, and too much ahead of either one.

Your entire post was geared around how Lee Moak passed up the opportunity of lifetime to merger with Airways due to his ego and that DL/NW was an inferior merger. Both of those statements are just wrong.
 
Good luck on that, sport.

Every other time I go through PHX, I end up getting at least one person fired. I am up to fourteen. Can we say, Arizonians are, for the most part, fracking idiots? Maybe it is the water. <sigh> We have idiots scamming the cash flow off this "company" and employees too stupid to figure out they are being scammed each day.
Well aren't you special. 🙄
 
Well, your initial statement said that Lee Moak rejected the US Air merger out of ego and a desire to run for national office. Those weren't even remotely the reason why. You said that Delta's standalone plan was anemic and I told that 2007, our first year out of bankruptcy, a year before the NW merger we produced massive profits, hired 700 pilots, we added more international flights than US Airways has in total. If that is anemic then your definition is different than mine. So I wasn't talking about the first year after the merger, I was talking about the first year of our standalone plan.

I don't know if you saw Doug Parker's business plan for the DL/US merger but I did. I didn't have to guess or wait and see what he would do, he said it right up front, so there was no speculation, only reading and understanding. All the job losses were coming from Delta. As far as his offer, he was giving some US Airways stock but he also was borrowing several billion dollars as an incentive to the unsecured creditors. In the Delta/Northwest merger, it was simply a stock swap and we did not incur any more debt. If you issue more equity then you can raise cash, but you also dilute the rest of the shareholders. Delta pilots received about 55,000,000 shares of stock from the merger, my share is currently worth over $70,000, and thus we weren't anxious for the stock to be diluted.

When Delta lost 8.9 billion in one year about $8 billion was due to a writeoff of goodwill, which is a non cash intangible asset. To try to impute that as our actual performance is playing games with financial statements. As I recall, US Air had a substantial loss in 2008 as well.

As for Parker and Kirby, if you are happy with them, then please keep them. In my experience, Kirby is lying sack of poop. Parker couldn't produce a penny worth of profit at Airways without the labor advantage he has. All of the employees have decided that fighting each other is preferable than making a better living so Airways lives on the labor arbitrage. Airways merged in 2005, Delta in 2008. We are already about 2 or three years ahead of you in merger advantages, 3 years ahead of United, and at least 5 or 6 years ahead of American by the time they figure out what they are going to be.

I have no idea where Delta will end up in the next 12-18 months. I spoke to senior executives last week and it is clear they are on the prowl. They do not fear a merger of AA/US as there is tremendous overlap and frankly there is not much to Airways that is particularly useful to American. The Charlotte hub would be a focus city and DCA is an asset but neither is worth buying an entire airline for. I still think the greatest possibility is a fragmentation of either LCC (most likely) or AMR. Neither airline has a real future as a standalone network airline as they exist today. Delta and United are too big, too connected, and too much ahead of either one.

Your entire post was geared around how Lee Moak passed up the opportunity of lifetime to merger with Airways due to his ego and that DL/NW was an inferior merger. Both of those statements are just wrong.
LEE MOAK, is a piece of sh&%, in the EAST pilots eyes, besides his arrogant demeanor, and his statements as an ALPA REP( DELTA MEC CHAIR) that maybe the industry would be better wthout USAIRWAYS really translates into his ALPA NATIONAL POSITION! OSCAR we only hope the DPA comes around the corner and soon, kicks your arrogant ASS in the crotch! MM!
 
Good luck on that, sport.

Every other time I go through PHX, I end up getting at least one person fired. I am up to fourteen. Can we say, Arizonians are, for the most part, fracking idiots? Maybe it is the water. <sigh> We have idiots scamming the cash flow off this "company" and employees too stupid to figure out they are being scammed each day.


Yeah, them evil stupid dolts in Tempe, the nerve of them, making profits from a carrier that was days away from liquidation...where do they get off? 🙄 🙄

I'm sure you are so proud of your fantasy.
 
Once again the west owes a sincere thanks to USAPA. I just got my class actionnotice today from the ompany. .Here's what It means:

All, this is the class notice which legally notifies all of us who are not named plaintiffs that there is a suit ongoing that will affect your rights. In what's called "B3" cases (the ones involving lots of $$$), class notices are critical elements in harvesting the tons of cash for the attorneys. Hence, they're heavily litigated. Our case is a B2 case which in the legal world should be a giant yawn, but that didn't stop USAPA from making a huge issue out of it, thus forcing the West to incur additional expenses litigating the trivial and the obvious. I've attached the court filing.

What to take from this: read it carefully and notice how you've never seen anything like this before with respect to your job as a unionized worker. There is a good reason for that - unions were given the nearly absolute power to bind their principals (members). The East has screwed themselves so badly by eliminating our separate agent (AWA MEC) and this filing is proof of that. Carry it with you on your trip and be sure to show an Easties. It's precisely because of this legal reality that there cannot be any sort of compromise - it's legally impossible under the machinery of class actions as applied to our case. That's why we have unions in the first place. It's only in the extremely unusual situations like the one we're in will there be utilization of the very clunky, class action machinery to resolve a union matter. If they wanted a deal, they should have kept the AWA MEC in place, find the handful of Judas Iscariots we have in our ranks and put them on the MEC, pay them a couple tens of millions of dollars to buy them off and then have them seal a deal. With our own agents signing off, I'll be the first to tell you that the case would have been very difficult absent direct evidence of the corruption. Now even that far out scenario isn't possible. A deal under the class action machinery allows every member to petition the court to be "opted out" of any settlement. It's a highly contentious process in the real class actions, but I really have no idea what Judge Silver would rule in our case. You talk about crazy; her having to decide whether or not West pilots could opt out would assuredly create appeals for several more years and not to mention, novel case law. Practically speaking, it wouldn't work; which goes right back to Tashima's inane opinion. All he did is create more pitfalls for the district judges, union members, unions and corporations. He had a chance to cement the obvious into law - binding meant binding - but.....here we are.


One more thing. When you're showing this Notice to an Eastie, be sure to explain that the class certification is only applicable to the company's declaratory action. Make sure they understand that we're only a class for the purposes of the company's very specific lawsuit. Once that matter is resolved or goes away, there is no more class.
Well lets remember your the one making the big bucks....you can afford it....and since your not moving to CLT you have money sittin' around.
 
Yeah, them evil stupid dolts in Tempe, the nerve of them, making profits from a carrier that was days away from liquidation...where do they get off? 🙄 🙄

I'm sure you are so proud of your fantasy.
FANTASY? A little balance sheet review might be in order, backward fuel hedge, useless realestate,! 2 billion due in less than 24mos, profits? AMR knows good and well this company dies on the vine in less than 2 years! MM!
 
FANTASY? A little balance sheet review might be in order, backward fuel hedge, useless realestate,! 2 billion due in less than 24mos, profits? AMR knows good and well this company dies on the vine in less than 2 years! MM!


Been hearing that for the last 5 years from the east (and they should know something about killing a company).

And I heard it since 1983 with America West naysayers.

Oh Mutatis..thanks for the humor.
 
Yeah, them evil stupid dolts in Tempe, the nerve of them, making profits from a carrier that was days away from liquidation...where do they get off? 🙄 🙄

I'm sure you are so proud of your fantasy.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/317064-why-did-this-large-cap-airliner-get-demoted-to-small-cap-status
 
Been hearing that for the last 5 years from the east (and they should know something about killing a company).

And I heard it since 1983 with America West naysayers.

Oh Mutatis..thanks for the humor.
ANYTIME! MM! http://seekingalpha.com/article/317064-why-did-this-large-cap-airliner-get-demoted-to-small-cap-status
 
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