US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Pi brat]

2. I don't know how Silver will rule but I KNOW what the factual evidence presented SHOULD lead her to

That's what I'm talking about CG. Do you have a law degree? Have you been a federal judge? Several that have disagree. We'll see, but your POV is not necessarily the right one.

 

[Pi brat]

and of course there was that whole "no way that Delta would allow the scum from the east be part of any transaction" quote from Mook.

When you can't get the guys name right, it kinda weakens your credibility. Reference please.

And why didn't you pull off the ATA or UA mergers? Can't blame that on scumbag easties.

 

[cleardirect]

I cannot tell you anything. I haven't found anyone that can.

One last try. Moving forward, the majority of west gains relative seniority while the majority of the east loses. It all depends on how you look at things and pick out what you want. You look at the slotting the day it happened and say that the future should be ignored. I say that the "career expectations" should have had Nic at least look at relative positions moving forward. Look at them. Look how improved some west are, and how some east are set back. It's clear to me. It happens. I have someone that was there for every minute that agrees with me, Mr. Brucia.

I believe you mentioned some problems that some group suffers in another post. Would you consider arrogance a problem?

I have looked and looked at merger policy and I cannot find where it says that the arbitrator has to look into the future. I do find where merger policy talks about PID.

Nicolau did look at relative positions, AT THE PID. Again nowhere does the policy talk about future events.

What does Brucia agree with you about? That SOME (300) not all furloughed east pilots should have gotten SOME consideration for being recalled after the PID. Again a future date from the PID.

When you got hired did you look into the future 20 years and see 17 years furloughs and LOA 93? Should you have taken that into account when you accepted the job?

 

[Claxon]

When you can't get the guys name right, it kinda weakens your credibility. Reference please.

And why didn't you pull off the ATA or UA mergers? Can't blame that on scumbag easties.

Never will he admit that the "scab union" owns his bargaining rights. The "scab union" did what no other could. Kill Nic.

 

[CallawayGolf]

I cannot tell you anything. I haven't found anyone that can.

One last try. Moving forward, the majority of west gains relative seniority while the majority of the east loses. It all depends on how you look at things and pick out what you want. You look at the slotting the day it happened and say that the future should be ignored. I say that the "career expectations" should have had Nic at least look at relative positions moving forward. Look at them. Look how improved some west are, and how some east are set back. It's clear to me. It happens. I have someone that was there for every minute that agrees with me, Mr. Brucia.

I believe you mentioned some problems that some group suffers in another post. Would you consider arrogance a problem?

I already said you can tell me anything and if I am wrong I will freely and openly admit it. I've gotten things wrong in my responses before and have done just that. I even took your previous criticism to heart when you said that I often state things as fact when it is just my opinion. Since then I will try (not always succeeding) to place a IMO or something in the post when there may be confusion as to when I cam stating a verifiable fact and when it is my opinion or best-guess. So, you have told me things and I have in fact responded with a change in behavior.

And on that note, IMO you are mixing apples and oranges again on the five-year post NIC analysis. Unless I am making an improper assumption, you are taking a person today and comparing them to stand-alone current status versus his position if the NIC were implemented. Of course his current position is in no small way affected by what has transpired at the airline post-merger. So pre-merger NIC slotting is apples and post-merger separate ops is oranges. Where would US be stand-alone in 2012 absent the merger? No one knows. Where would AWA be stand-alone absent the 2005 merger? Again no one knows. What we do know is where people are on the list as of the integration date and that is what Nicolau used to make his award. The effects of the merger cannot be ignored or compensated for (IMO) so your current year analysis is far more flawed than the award, IMO.

 

[luvn737s]

And why has USAPA taken this route?

1- The NIC was flawed from the beginning, ask any MDA pilot.

2- It DOES NOT abide by ALPA merger policy...no windfall for either group.

Thus, USAPA was born.

breeze

Sounds like the advocate for the furloughed (who are outside the scope of the Nicolau). The MDA pilots knew they weren't mainline. It's not until they feel they can advance themselves by trying to repeat the lie enough times to make it the equivalent of the truth, do they even bother to consider it.

Will the rift between the MDA pilots and the mainline pilots who conveniently left them off the list cause them to split the vote? Why of course not. Now they need each other.

Please, ulterior motives are alot more fun when they are at least concealed a little bit.

 

[traderjake]

How about this: "The Nicolau award has produced such a lousy situation, it must be screwed up". Sums it up pretty well to me. Is that what you were getting at?

No. The six word West answer was simpler.

 

[Res Judicata]

The Franke disciples claim USAPA was formed to exclusively circumvent the Nic. They then claim it is a failed union in the same breath. In the view of the disciples, USAPA has hamstrung them incredibly. They too are injuncted and the Nic is stopped dead. The disciples are wrong. USAPA has thwarted them completely, and they are frustrated beyond anger. The Franke disciples know USAPA has killed the Nic. That is why they whine and complain constantly about it.

my God are you delusional.....out of your frigging mind. How are things over at Delta? Remember telling us all that's where you actually worked?

You're just another effed up East scab. The "Western" have been mopping the floor with you idiots for years and the fight will go on for as long as it has to....till the last man standing. It will cost Billions of more dollars...the vast majority of that was supposed to end up in Eastern pockets but what can you do? You can lead a scab to the truth but you can't make him not a complete idiot. Vote McKee.

 

[CallawayGolf]

That's what I'm talking about CG. Do you have a law degree? Have you been a federal judge? Several that have disagree. We'll see, but your POV is not necessarily the right one.

So you don't like he word "should" in a post that offers my opinion on the court case? No, I'm not a lawyer or a judge but what difference would that make? Judges disagree with other judges and lawyers disagree with other lawyers on matters of fact and interpretation of the law on a regular basis. So why is my educated best-guess based on the facts and evidence I have seen thus far any different? I was one of only a few voices on these boards that said from the beginning that she would not dismiss the DJ. Was it arrogant to speak my opinion then or to place my comments in context now?

Was Kirby wrong(arrogant) to say that the LOA93 grievance had almost no chance two years before it was decided? I don't think so because he knew the facts overwhelmingly substantiated his views.

Was Isom wrong for stating that the east was engaged in a slowdown before Conrad ruled and issued the injunction? Again I don't think so because he knew the facts and had the data to substantiate his statement.

Was Jesus wrong (arrogant) for stating without equivocation, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me". Of course not because He knows the truth and speaking the truth when the receiver of that truth will benefit from hearing it is not wrong or arrogant.

Speaking lies is wrong. Speaking the truth to harm another person for ones personal gain is wrong, but just speaking the truth when it could benefit another is not wrong (IMO).

 

[BoeingBoy]

I say that the "career expectations" should have had Nic at least look at relative positions moving forward.

Says the guy whose side gained because of the merger. How exactly was Nic to look at expectations going forward when everything pointed to one side liquidating without the merger?

It's the same east "don't look at where we were then, look at where we are after getting most of the benefits of the merger." It's no wonder the west won't negotiate even if they had some mechanism to do so. East keeps moving the goalposts - a year from now it'll be "Forget 2012, look what we've got now."

Jim

 

[Claxon]

my God are you delusional.....out of your frigging mind. How are things over at Delta? Remember telling us all that's where you actually worked?

You're just another effed up East scab. The "Western" have been mopping the floor with you idiots for years and the fight will go on for as long as it has to....till the last man standing. It will cost Billions of more dollars...the vast majority of that was supposed to end up in Eastern pockets but what can you do? You can lead a scab to the truth but you can't make him not a complete idiot. Vote McKee.

Your support Hummel plan is compromised. Interesting, but flawed . It will result in Hummel and mcKee. Ferguson will lose it all when Hummel goes down.

 

[Metroyet]

Your support Hummel plan is compromised. Interesting, but flawed . It will result in Hummel and mcKee. Ferguson will lose it all when Hummel goes down.

The "support Hummel plan" is news to me. He's just another doh scumbag too stupid to get out of the rain.

 

[mrbreeze]

Sounds like the advocate for the furloughed (who are outside the scope of the Nicolau). The MDA pilots knew they weren't mainline. It's not until they feel they can advance themselves by trying to repeat the lie enough times to make it the equivalent of the truth, do they even bother to consider it.

Will the rift between the MDA pilots and the mainline pilots who conveniently left them off the list cause them to split the vote? Why of course not. Now they need each other.

Please, ulterior motives are alot more fun when they are at least concealed a little bit.

So each MDA pilot personally told you that they knew they were not mainline? What lie? USAir finally admitted that they were in fact part of mainline.

There was never a rift between mainline and the MDA pilots, they had our full support and still do.....they have always been our mainline brothers and sisters.

That's just the facts Jack! Sorry to burst the bubble which is only your opinion, which is way off target, seeing that you were never there and never involved with any of that history.

Gawd, another freakin expert with no clue! This kind of crap gets old.

breeze

 

[SparrowHawk]

In my casual and sarcastic viewing/posting on this thread I keep hearing the phrase "Career Expectations" Having read a great deal of the Nic Award and legal documents our of curiosity I keep coming back to the question, What "Career Expectations" are we talking about?

Before the merger the Career Expectations at US and HP were soon to be the Unemployment line as both were doomed, it was only a question of when not if. Based on this it seems as if the arbitrator failed to take the prior career expectations that on a scale of 1 to 100 were zero without a merger into consideration. Also I keep hearing Date of Hire. Technically your DOH was the day the merger closed so in essence everyone has the same hire date.

In my view the predecessor companies offered no career expectations beyond liquidation. The merged company began operation IIRC on 9/27/2005 which would have been everyone's hire date.

 

[Claxon]

The "support Hummel plan" is news to me. He's just another doh scumbag too stupid to get out of the rain.

It is one more flawed western scheme to steal seniority. Notice the lack of Ferguson endorsements? They are secretly voting Hummel because they know Ferguson can't get the needed votes. They know Hummel is working with the western division.