What's new

US Pilots Labor Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
Image Blocked Dear Fellow Pilots,

My name is Jeff Koontz and I am running for the position of Vice President of the US Airline Pilots Association. My platform differs from other candidates in that I will bring about true change. If elected, I will use my education and experience to move our pilot group in one legal direction to end our seniority dispute. Watch our latest video to see how we can move ahead together to secure an industry-leading contract for all US Airways pilots.


http://www.koontzforvp.com/index-7.html


Personal:


Image Blocked A320 F/O PHX

Image Blocked Age 42, married 17 years, 3 kids


Eduction:

Image Blocked BA Mathematics, Northwestern University, 1990

Image Blocked Juris Doctor, University of Arizona, 2006

Image Blocked MS Aerospace Engineering candidate, University of
Alabama 2012


Experience:

Image Blocked Navy officer

Image Blocked Licensed attorney in California and Arizona.


WWW.KOONTZFORVP.COM Image Blocked
Campaign messages are not union-endorsed or paid for with union funds.
Jeffrey Koontz | 4365 Fairlawn Drive | LaCanada, CA 91011 | (252) 301-2272
 
For all you WESTIES, MOVE2 ETC, now look in the mirror, even at "BAMA" eduction" is not a word! LMFAO, HUMMEL pleez let your buddies send you their material to proof read!
 
ummm....what the majority can pass either contains the Nic, or the West sues, end of story.

edited by me,,,

Forgot to add, vote for the candidate you like best,,,I think the election has a 35% chance of being found illegal again, and you all have to do a do-over, at the cost of around $200k

Judging from west friends I have spoken to I think we can find a middle ground that will pass on both sides. Personally I think letting the west holdouts sue is probably the only way to get anything done. I don't think you can ever get a unmodified NIC to pass. Too many pilots get burned too much by it. The only ones on the east that are not really hurt by it are close to retirement. The number that is completly left out by NIC is large and getting bigger by the day. Really the only hope a NIC T/A has of passing is the west getting help from the few very senior guys that are not really affected by it. But they are down to 10 months to 3 years left before aging out. For 1700+ on the east they only have less than 8 years left, and for a huge number of those NIC is a permanant right seat position.

We made what 60 mill last year? Doug is a numbers guy and has stated that it costs 100 mill to bring east up to west pay. We are not a real strong airline, we make money but not much. The chances of getting Doug to come up with anything other than a token raise is slim to none. Look at what the F/A's managed, remains to be seen but so far I have not flown with an F/A that says they are voting for it.

So given all that, i don't think the prospect of a meager token raise is ever going to be enough to get the east to accept the full unmodified NIC.

Eric's drum beating of a "Industry leading contract" is a laughable pipe dream. Our profits do not support it, Doug will never do it in current economic situation. He has an injunction to ensure he will never have to sign anything until he is good a ready to. Some on the east went overboard last summer and gave them the bullet, and the west by doing everything they could to be the opposite of the east gave them the powder. Eric being one of the head drum beaters in the "Evil East is running a slowdown" campaign. Basically Eric was a major player in ensuring that even if he got elected he would not be able to do squat on the contract front.

I think there is a good chance if we ever do see a NIC list coming to pass that Doug is going to come back with a lowball offer, probably a token raise for the east and nothing for west, maybe even a concession contract for the west. He does not want a contract, that is plain to see. he has operating costs exactly where he wants them.
 
Judging from west friends I have spoken to I think we can find a middle ground that will pass on both sides. Personally I think letting the west holdouts sue is probably the only way to get anything done. I don't think you can ever get a unmodified NIC to pass. Too many pilots get burned too much by it. The only ones on the east that are not really hurt by it are close to retirement. The number that is completly left out by NIC is large and getting bigger by the day. Really the only hope a NIC T/A has of passing is the west getting help from the few very senior guys that are not really affected by it. But they are down to 10 months to 3 years left before aging out. For 1700+ on the east they only have less than 8 years left, and for a huge number of those NIC is a permanant right seat position.

We made what 60 mill last year? Doug is a numbers guy and has stated that it costs 100 mill to bring east up to west pay. We are not a real strong airline, we make money but not much. The chances of getting Doug to come up with anything other than a token raise is slim to none. Look at what the F/A's managed, remains to be seen but so far I have not flown with an F/A that says they are voting for it.

So given all that, i don't think the prospect of a meager token raise is ever going to be enough to get the east to accept the full unmodified NIC.

Eric's drum beating of a "Industry leading contract" is a laughable pipe dream. Our profits do not support it, Doug will never do it in current economic situation. He has an injunction to ensure he will never have to sign anything until he is good a ready to. Some on the east went overboard last summer and gave them the bullet, and the west by doing everything they could to be the opposite of the east gave them the powder. Eric being one of the head drum beaters in the "Evil East is running a slowdown" campaign. Basically Eric was a major player in ensuring that even if he got elected he would not be able to do squat on the contract front.

I think there is a good chance if we ever do see a NIC list coming to pass that Doug is going to come back with a lowball offer, probably a token raise for the east and nothing for west, maybe even a concession contract for the west. He does not want a contract, that is plain to see. he has operating costs exactly where he wants them.
True. The ninth made it clear that there is little chance of anyone getting a raise or contract with the NIC. Excellent defense for USAPA. Very doubtful that they would lose.
 
True. The ninth made it clear that there is little chance of anyone getting a raise or contract with the NIC. Excellent defense for USAPA. Very doubtful that they would lose.

The 9th made it "speculative" whether a contract contain the Nic would be ratifiable. Very nebulous statement about future events that Tashima spent so much time saying you cannot predict therefore "not ripe".

Tashima did make it absolutely clear that usapa has a duty of fair representation to "bargain for all USAirways pilots". So, it is highly probable that any non-Nic contract would fail that DFR as already proven by jury verdict. Hence the company's request for declaratory judgement.
 
Judging from west friends I have spoken to I think we can find a middle ground that will pass on both sides. Personally I think letting the west holdouts sue is probably the only way to get anything done. I don't think you can ever get a unmodified NIC to pass. Too many pilots get burned too much by it. The only ones on the east that are not really hurt by it are close to retirement. The number that is completly left out by NIC is large and getting bigger by the day. Really the only hope a NIC T/A has of passing is the west getting help from the few very senior guys that are not really affected by it. But they are down to 10 months to 3 years left before aging out. For 1700+ on the east they only have less than 8 years left, and for a huge number of those NIC is a permanant right seat position.

We made what 60 mill last year? Doug is a numbers guy and has stated that it costs 100 mill to bring east up to west pay. We are not a real strong airline, we make money but not much. The chances of getting Doug to come up with anything other than a token raise is slim to none. Look at what the F/A's managed, remains to be seen but so far I have not flown with an F/A that says they are voting for it.

So given all that, i don't think the prospect of a meager token raise is ever going to be enough to get the east to accept the full unmodified NIC.

Eric's drum beating of a "Industry leading contract" is a laughable pipe dream. Our profits do not support it, Doug will never do it in current economic situation. He has an injunction to ensure he will never have to sign anything until he is good a ready to. Some on the east went overboard last summer and gave them the bullet, and the west by doing everything they could to be the opposite of the east gave them the powder. Eric being one of the head drum beaters in the "Evil East is running a slowdown" campaign. Basically Eric was a major player in ensuring that even if he got elected he would not be able to do squat on the contract front.

I think there is a good chance if we ever do see a NIC list coming to pass that Doug is going to come back with a lowball offer, probably a token raise for the east and nothing for west, maybe even a concession contract for the west. He does not want a contract, that is plain to see. he has operating costs exactly where he wants them.

Let me say that I agree with your West friends. However, the "middle ground" must include an unmodified Nic seniority list.

In the four years I have been posting on this board, I don't think there is any other poster who has come up with as many ideas as myself to bridge the divide and overcome the application of the Nic in a joint contract. I have suggested everything from 25 year f/o payscales to cross domicile training events. Each idea has been handly rejected by the usapa faithful who think they are going to get an unobtainable DOH cramdown.

So, where does that get us? We have a West pilot group whose first dealing with the east is that the east reneged on a binding arbitration. Therefore, the east has zero integrity in the West pilot's eyes. The West is not going to do any deals with your group. You have already proven yourselves incapable of following the most basic concepts of civilized dispute resolution. The atrocities usapa has commited against the West post election is all icing on the f u cake.

More importantly, nobody, not management, not the IBT, not the APA, nobody is going to deal with a group that completely lacks any integrity whatsoever. The usapa track record is renege, then have union busting lawyer file frivolous lawsuits, then break contract with union busting lawyer. Seriously!! The east is going to have to live up to their word just once before any forward progress is made. That starts with accepting the arbitration award.

How this relates to the election. You can either vote for the east candidates who promote the divide, or you can vote for the West candidates who seek to end it by calming West fears and implementing the Nic.

To sum, the primary starting point is an unmodified Nic in section 22. Once that is a given, then maybe we can talk.
 
<snip>
I think that if both sides don't acknowledge what the Nicolau award does, and the two west candidates are not acknowledging that, that we will not get ANYWHERE. That's why I do it. <snip>
What exactly do you want "both sides" to acknowledge and how do you envision a final resolution that is acceptable to enough east and west pilots for it to see a JCBA become ratified? Let's try it just between you and me and see how far we get...

CG is willing to admit that:
1. The east pilots who were furloughed or held a position at MDA at the time of the merger/integration date would be at the bottom of the combined seniority list and will have a difficult if not impossible time seeing the left seat or WB opportunities depending on how much time they have left before mandatory retirement. Of course that assumes that US will not grow substantially in international flying over the course of time and create many more upgrade opportunities than what may exist today. Conversely if US shrinks substantially then even those guys you predict to make WB in their careers would not in fact get where you project them to go. Predicting the future is a two-way street; you can be just as wrong one way as you are the other which make future assumptions or "career expectations" to some, about a reliable as Punxsutawney Phil.

2. The right seat and smaller AC generally translate to lower earning power than the left seat or larger AC by comparison. Those that can only hold the right seat on smaller AC throughout their active flying careers will earn far less than those who can hold and bid for flying that pays substantially more. Again, those who held a lower percentile seniority position or who were furloughed at the integration date are likely effected the most by this reality.

3. The lower a person's seniority number the less chance that pilot has to pick the best work schedule that meets their personal preferences. And once again, those who held a lower percentile seniority position or who were furloughed at the integration date are likely effected the most by this reality.

4. The pilot Transition Agreement called for the use of ALPA merger and integration policy which included a binding arbitration provision. That TA was signed by all parties required and is legally a Collective Bargaining Agreement as defined and covered by the RLA and it is just as enforceable at LOA93 or C2004 on the Company, the pilots employed by US Airways, and any successor bargaining agent which may be certified to represent the pilots.

5. Other than agreeing to and signing off on the TA, the west pilots are not responsible for any of the above-listed statements of fact. The west pilots did not cause east pilots to be furloughed or to have a very junior seniority position despite the fact that these east pilots may have been hired or been in the service of US Airways (or a predecessor airline) for 16-20 years ago jut st to be able to retain a very junior status. Furthermore, the west pilots did not create or unduly influence the arbitration process and had no more control over the outcome of the Nicolau award than did any or all east pilots. The west pilots were and are just as bound by the results of the award as are the east pilots. Likewise, the west pilots did not create the industry practice of having payscales and work rules that favor those with more seniority at the expense of those who have little to no seniority status.


Okay, now it's your turn. I'll start you off with the first item that I think you need to admit so that a two-way, solution can be achieved. Feel free to fill in other statements of fact that you know or believe those on the east must admit as part acknowledging the west's viewpoint and thus gain "bipartisan" support to move forward together with:

1. The Nicolau Award for the SLI is the only list that USAPA and Management can legally adopt as the S22 seniority system. If any other list is used, just one of the 5,000 or so east and west pilots could files for a DRF, and has been shown in the district court under Addington I, the chances are good for both USAPA and the Company to lose if such a claim is made. In this instance the minority (even if only one) rules as opposed to the majority which is the exact intent of the DFR provision in the first place. Thus, whatever solution or proposal is devised must include the NIC as a starting point for moving forward.

2.

3.

4.
 
True. The ninth made it clear that there is little chance of anyone getting a raise or contract with the NIC. Excellent defense for USAPA. Very doubtful that they would lose.
No, that's not a defense. Never has been.

Your third listers are voting for the west. Those tired of USAPA are voting west. Those tired of LOA93 are voting west.

Those numbers are growing. The angry FOs are losing their support.
 
The 9th made it "speculative" whether a contract contain the Nic would be ratifiable. Very nebulous statement about future events that Tashima spent so much time saying you cannot predict therefore "not ripe".

Tashima did make it absolutely clear that usapa has a duty of fair representation to "bargain for all USAirways pilots". So, it is highly probable that any non-Nic contract would fail that DFR as already proven by jury verdict. Hence the company's request for declaratory judgement.

Now American friends come into the mix. The Niclau will be a distant memory, overtaken by new events.
 
The 9th made it "speculative" whether a contract contain the Nic would be ratifiable. Very nebulous statement about future events that Tashima spent so much time saying you cannot predict therefore "not ripe".

Tashima did make it absolutely clear that usapa has a duty of fair representation to "bargain for all USAirways pilots". So, it is highly probable that any non-Nic contract would fail that DFR as already proven by jury verdict. Hence the company's request for declaratory judgement.
Don't let that lawyer talk you again into suing for a case that isn't ripe. He should give you your money back for the first time.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Back
Top