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NOT EVEN CLOSE

To quote from the latest PHL Update:

“A question about the Declaratory Judgment case resulted in the point being made [sic: by Mike Cleary] that the Company is siding with the West on this specifically because the West represents a bargaining position that can’t be ratified. The result? Delay, and more delay.”

Really? So we’re supposed to believe that the company has no case but somehow bulldozed a federal judge into believing that there was an actual controversy sufficient to meet the standards of Article III of the U.S. Constitution?

Wrong.

The disconnect is not that there was a failure on the federal bench to not catch a “frivolous” lawsuit by the company. The only disconnect here is the failure for any of the leaders in USAPA to correctly articulate the irreconcilable conflict wrought by USAPA’s non-Nicolau objective.

We can dissemble our situation into easily recognizable components:

(1) Arbitration as called for under the Transition Agreement;
(2) Completion of the seniority arbitration with the result accepted by the company;
(3) Formation of USAPA to avoid the arbitration result;
(4) Changing unions does not relieve USAPA of its Duty to Fairly Represent or insulate USAPA from liability for failing in its DFR obligation.
(5) The law clearly holds that the company can be held liable for agreeing to contract terms which turn out to be a violation of the union’s DFR.

Point (5) is the reason we have the Declaratory Judgment. Contrary to what Cleary and Co. say, there is an actual, live and legitimate fear of harm for the company should they enter into a joint contract that doesn’t include the Nicolau. The legal theory is known as a “Hyrbid DFR”. Conveniently, USAPA’s founders neglected to disclose to the East pilots the existence of such a claim. I will expound upon this point further in another blog post, but for now recall Lee Seham’s offer of a cost neutral contract to the company in exchange for “labor peace.” A cost neutral contract would have saved the company vast amounts of money; over a hundred million under the Kirby alone. There was a reason he was doing this – he had to attempt to make it worth while for the company to buy off on the risk of being sued by the West pilots under a Hybrid DFR. The company expained it this way in their opposition to USAPA’s Motion to Dismiss:

“On the one hand, US Airways has a “real and reasonable” apprehension of harm if it accepts USAPA’s seniority demands because, as described supra (5:3-12), the West Pilots will then sue US Airways for, inter alia, facilitating or assisting USAPA’s breach of its DFR. The risk of such a lawsuit is not idle speculation. The West Pilots have confirmed in filings with this Court that they will bring such a suit. Indeed, they previously sued USAPA for refusing to negotiate for the Nicolau Award, and a jury found that USAPA had breached its DFR. Addington, 606 F.3d at 1178. While the Ninth Circuit reversed on ripeness grounds, it noted that the West Pilots’ DFR claim would be “unquestionably ripe” once a CBA was ratified. Id. at 1180 n.1.3 The Nicolau Award resulted from an arbitration that the West Pilots consider to be “final and binding,” and, as required by the Transition Agreement, US Airways accepted the Nicolau Award after it was presented by ALPA. The West Pilots consider that to be the end of the matter, and they will accept nothing less than implementation of the Nicolau Award. Thus, US Airways has a “real and reasonable” apprehension that if accepts any seniority proposal other than the Nicolau Award, the West Pilots will sue. Doc 61, pg 12.

The East rank and file pilots were not fully informed by the founders of USAPA or the subsequent leaders. Seniority is not like negotiating crew meals – far from it! We now have a live and justiciable controversy simply because USAPA aims to replace the arbitrated seniority list with something different. The Declaratory Judgment is just the first step to resolving USAPA’s aims to avoid the Nicolau, and there is no guarantee that Judge Silver will completely resolve it.

The choice is yours to make: we can continue to litigate this for another few years with the overwhelming likely result being a court order to use the Nicolau, or we just accept the arbitrated list today and remove the only obstacle standing in the way of a better contract and a better life for all. If you like your current situation and wages, then by all means for any of the other candidates as their platforms are guaranteed to keep all of us locked at our current pay and benefits. If however you are looking to finally get off a bankruptcy contract on the East and Contract 2004 on the West, than there is only one vote for you: Ferguson, Koontz and Holmes.
 
Prove it.

Until that day comes, threats of voting no until the end times is just more stupid Blather from a group of cowards.

Res,

Your choice of name calling words speaks volumes bout you. Note that overwhelming magority of east poster seldom fall into such immature behavior.

It's a statement of fact that I will never vote for a Nic inclusive TA. Only speaking for myself of course! I do realize that we all have different financial situations. A Nic final resolution or LCC shutdown = same disaster as far as I am concerned.
If you choose to reply with additional insults, you will get the last word .

FA
 
It's always a conspiracy against the east. Judges, arbitrators, former lawyers, former union officers, local CLT burglars, Management, and the guy selling hot dogs outside of Lowes are all out to get the east pilots everyday. Right!
 
It's not going to be Industry leading....I don't know why they're saying that...

I haven't seen anything they've put out saying that. It's just Pi's twisting of words so he can rail against whatever he claims someone says. Pursuing an "industry-leading" contract is a worthy goal but as the saying goes, it's called fishing instead of catching for a reason - pursuing fish is no guarantee of catching fish...

Jim
 
Then call them what you think they are and save the scab crap. You guys must really not care about scabs to use that term so loosely. There are two terms recklessly thrown around on this board that get to me and they are scab and child molester.

Hi Pi...
Merriam - Webster's definition of scab includes: 3 (a) a contemptible person... in addition to the traditional "union speak" of strike breaker. I believe that given the amount of money that "the East's" lack of integrity or lack of intelligence, has personally cost me and my fellow workers by their unwillingness to abide by their agreement, fits that definition perfectly. I further believe that although the "strike breaker" definition does not strictly apply, there is a parallel selfish motive at work that ends up costing the group to the benefit of the individual. In that sense it is probably quite appropriate and in no way out of line. It seems to me that this may hit a little to close to home for you and your ilk.
With the term "child molester" you are probably right. At some point, we are probably into libel, and it should be off limits. But those are just words and in a strictly legal sense, context is considered, and statements that are so ridiculous as to be patently false are excluded. In the end, I still believe that "actions speak louder than words" and if your (pl) actions have cost each member something north of six figures (some more north than others), maybe the words are not worth getting worked up about.

Cheers! PUI again!

Hey... sorry about that "ilk" word. Even though it currently carries a negative connotation, in reality it is not at all derogatory. (See Webster's) I just like the word.
 
Prove it. Elect the West guys and you'll have a decent, NIC Inclusive, contract to vote on in fairly short order. It's not going to be Industry leading....I don't know why they're saying that but it will be a damn sight better than what you've been on the last 8 or so years. THEN you can all show us just how powerfully unified you are on staying on LOA 93 to avoid the Nic by voting "NO".

Until that day comes, threats of voting no until the end times is just more stupid Blather from a group of cowards.

They said "pursue" an industry leading contract... Some read more critically than others.
 
I haven't seen anything they've put out saying that. It's just Pi's twisting of words so he can rail against whatever he claims someone says. Pursuing an "industry-leading" contract is a worthy goal but as the saying goes, it's called fishing instead of catching for a reason - pursuing fish is no guarantee of catching fish...

Jim

I'm twisting words? Really? Correcting Res on what he thought it said. Go to their site. Click on "Our solution". To the right of their picture will pop up "TO IMPLEMENT THE ARBITRATION AWARD FOR AN INDUSTRY-LEADING-CONTRACT". Their words Jim, not mine. No real detail on how they are going to bridge the unity gap that they have been preaching about for the last 5 years, just "Trust us".

It is a worthy goal. We deserve it. But answer me how they will be more successful with a large group of the east fighting THEM at every turn for a change. Will not following the C&BLs cause a east DFR? I just don't think it as simple as they claim and I have history with them that makes me skeptical. Do you?

Have you cast your vote yet?
 
Hi Pi...
Merriam - Webster's definition of scab includes: 3 (a) a contemptible person... in addition to the traditional "union speak" of strike breaker. I believe that given the amount of money that "the East's" lack of integrity or lack of intelligence, has personally cost me and my fellow workers by their unwillingness to abide by their agreement, fits that definition perfectly. I further believe that although the "strike breaker" definition does not strictly apply, there is a parallel selfish motive at work that ends up costing the group to the benefit of the individual. In that sense it is probably quite appropriate and in no way out of line. It seems to me that this may hit a little to close to home for you and your ilk.
With the term "child molester" you are probably right. At some point, we are probably into libel, and it should be off limits. But those are just words and in a strictly legal sense, context is considered, and statements that are so ridiculous as to be patently false are excluded. In the end, I still believe that "actions speak louder than words" and if your (pl) actions have cost each member something north of six figures (some more north than others), maybe the words are not worth getting worked up about.

Cheers! PUI again!

Hey... sorry about that "ilk" word. Even though it currently carries a negative connotation, in reality it is not at all derogatory. (See Webster's) I just like the word.


Did you actually read the campaign letter posted a few pages back? The one I am assuming from "West" pilot candidates. It implies that East pilots should put themselves and their family before the group, which I am assuming is because the group mentality concept stands in the way of what you want. Funny that union, unity stuff and how it works. You implore people to cast it aside because in your view you have the righteous position and that at least in this instance trying to convince people to have an every man for himself, screw the group because its not your group interest and that might help you and your interest out at a specific moment in time. But somehow, the long lasting effects of acting in that way and the harm to unity it will do won't affect the future or the pursuit of an industry leading contract.(yeah right)

Sorry but people that have Scabbed have always fallen back on the, "I don't owe you anything, but I do owe my situation and family something" argument to rationalize breaking from the group. Real union winners there writing that letter and actually advocating that and thinking you will have a happy kumbaya union that will get anything from anyone.
 
Pi, nothing is missing.

First thing first. The distraction of getting something other than the Nic must be done away with. Then, and only then, can we move toward a new contract.

I agree that we have to solve the Nic problem, what I am saying is that their way of solving it, without some other considerations will not be the end of it.
 
Hi Pi...
Merriam - Webster's definition of scab includes: 3 (a) a contemptible person...

You left this one out:

a : a contemptible person b (1) : a worker who refuses to join a labor union.

I think that covers one of the prime scab launchers on this site.

You need to be drinking higher quality beverages.
 
They said "pursue" an industry leading contract... Some read more critically than others.

"TO IMPLEMENT THE ARBITRATION AWARD FOR AN INDUSTRY-LEADING-CONTRACT". I guess it is open to interpretation, and Res read it the way I did.
 
Res,

Your choice of name calling words speaks volumes bout you. Note that overwhelming magority of east poster seldom fall into such immature behavior.

It's a statement of fact that I will never vote for a Nic inclusive TA. Only speaking for myself of course! I do realize that we all have different financial situations. A Nic final resolution or LCC shutdown = same disaster as far as I am concerned.
If you choose to reply with additional insults, you will get the last word .

FA
If you find the incontestable truth insulting than you're on your own. I don't care what you think. Not even a teeny little bit. You and your kind have easily cost my family well over 100k and I will never forget it. The only bright side is that you've probably cost yourselves triple that amount. Calling USAPA out on its blatant cowardice isn't name calling. It's fact. You guys couldnt have possibly F'ed this up more if you had hired professional failures. Party's over. Change is coming.
 
Hi Pi...
Merriam - Webster's definition of scab includes: 3 (a) a contemptible person... in addition to the traditional "union speak" of strike breaker.
Traditional "union speak". Hmmm.

I guess the defining words of Jack London, who described the west pilots to a tee in his definition of a "scab" is included as your definition of "union speak".

Jack would have laughed at the call-sign, cactus, which really means something you might probably don't want to be known as should you share a bunk in a cell, depending on your sexual orientation. Known in Australia as slang for something broken down and un-usable, it certainly describes what goes on in tempe.

The west takes insults and attacks on their professionalism from tempe all the time. There has got to be something wrong with former A&W pilots who seem to champion such behavior, allowing agents to determine the airworthiness of their aircraft and accepting lies like Mr. Isom's lies about smoke and fumes without protest. Can one say, no self esteem? At all? They seem happy with sub-standard slop and mud to wallow around in. Heck, I don't know if the word scab really describes the depravity.
 
Did you actually read the campaign letter posted a few pages back? The one I am assuming from "West" pilot candidates. It implies that East pilots should put themselves and their family before the group, which I am assuming is because the group mentality concept stands in the way of what you want. Funny that union, unity stuff and how it works. You implore people to cast it aside because in your view you have the righteous position and that at least in this instance trying to convince people to have an every man for himself, screw the group because its not your group interest and that might help you and your interest out at a specific moment in time. But somehow, the long lasting effects of acting in that way and the harm to unity it will do won't affect the future or the pursuit of an industry leading contract.(yeah right)

Sorry but people that have Scabbed have always fallen back on the, "I don't owe you anything, but I do owe my situation and family something" argument to rationalize breaking from the group. Real union winners there writing that letter and actually advocating that and thinking you will have a happy kumbaya union that will get anything from anyone.


Thanks, you put it better than I did.

The east told the west "We are going to do this. Just come along and we will get you a contract, and you will see, it will be alright". The west didn't buy it, and fought tooth and nail against it. And they were the minority. How is saying the same thing, without a definitive answer from the courts, going to work with the east? You know, the majority.
 
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