US Pilots Labor Discussion

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

What will the next merger look like?

Dear USAirways Pilots,

As the various merger rumors grow stronger, and the current USAPA leadership prefers to continue its pursuit of the ever more elusive DOH list through the courts, rather than concentrate on getting a contract, it would behoove us to see what a future merger might look like, especially if we merge while still under our current contracts.

There are only three likely merger possibilities: American, Delta and, to a lesser degree, United. USAPA’s merger policy requires the union to pursue a DOH-based integration but the other pilot groups are not bound by this policy. A merger with Delta or United would mean a return to ALPA, which would be required to accept the Nicolau while the APA’s merger policy calls for a “staple” of the other pilot group. Both of these policies are incompatible with USAPA’s DOH merger policy so the matter would go to Binding Arbitration as per the McCaskill/Bond act. Of course, we don’t have to remind anybody what happened the last time the USAirways pilots went to Arbitration unwilling to move off DOH.

The last three Pilot Seniority List Arbitrations in recent history have favored slotted integrations based on aircraft size, with minimal fences and adjustments for employment status and career expectations while the negotiated seniority list integration between Southwest and Airtran (where similar size a/c were involved) relied heavily on hourly wage rates and projected career earnings.

Let’s look at Delta, which has 167 widebodies and 192 B757s compared to USAirways 16 and 34 respectively. Replicating the arbitrated integration method used in the Delta/Northwest merger by Arbitrator Bloch (who used a method almost identical to the one used by George Nicolau), this would result in about 476 DAL 747/777 Captain positions on top of the list, followed by a 7:1 integration of 896 DAL A330/76-300/400 Captain positions and 128 LCC A330 positions and a 6.3:1 integration of DALs 1316 757/767-300 Captain positions with USAirways’ 209 positions. Under this method, of the first 3025 positions, 2688 would go to Delta and only 337 (11.1%) to LCC pilots.

However, this is where things could get sticky. Delta Widebody FOs have a higher hourly wage than LCC Group II and West Captains. ($154/hr for 74/77 FOs and $146/hr for A330/76-400 FOs), The Delta merger committee can be sure to argue that all their 757/767 Captains should go ahead of the USAirways Captains, while the approximately 1,000 DAL widebody FOs should be slotted in with the 209 East Group II / West Captains in order to prevent a “windfall” for the LCC pilots. Obviously, it remains to be seen if an Arbitrator would agree with that line of reasoning, but should he/she decide to take wages and expected career earnings into consideration, it could lead to Group 1 Captains slotted in with Delta 757 FOs ($129/hr) while all USAirways FOs could end up below 5th year Delta narrowbody FOs ($111//hr for a 5th year B737 FO). That is how ridiculously underpaid this pilot group is, and the gap grows larger every day.

According to Mike Cleary’s statement at the last PHL Domicile Meeting, a merger with American is “a question of when, not if”. We’ll see. But……American’s fleet composition resembles that of Delta (120 Widebodies, 124 B-757s), and even after the bankruptcy wage cut recently proposed by AA management, their pay will still be significantly higher than ours. A slotted integration adjusted for pay rates would greatly benefit the American pilots, in the same way it would benefit the Delta pilots, even though under USAPA’s DOH merger policy close to 2000 Furloughed AA pilots would be put ahead of, or slotted in with, currently employed LCC pilots hired between 1999 and 2004.

Clearly, facing another merger while working under our current bankruptcy/ATSB limited contracts, will be a recipe for disaster for all the USAirways pilots. The importance of merging with a recent contract containing at least industry standard wages was illustrated by the Airtran pilots voting in a new contract just prior to entering SLI negotiations with Southwest, which greatly improved their bargaining positions because of increased career earnings projections.

In order to maximize our bargaining position in a possible merger, and help ensure a bright future for all USAirways pilots, it is essential that we move forward NOW, not “when the courts decide”, several years from now. Closing your eyes to the challenges facing us in the very near future, or hoping for “fragmentation” will ultimately doom every pilot on the property.

None of the other candidates have a plan for dealing with these challenges now, so the choice is simple. Vote Ferguson/Koontz/Holmes and protect your family’s future.

What is hilarious is your take on those scenerio's and a USAIRWAYS financial snap shot! First Chip on the table 2billlion in debt, now lets talk! DUI DOUG LOADED THE TABLE IN USELESS DEBT, Good Luck, our chips will not be in!

 

[jetjok1]

Ferguson/Koontz can get you an industry standard contract in 2012. If you think Nic. is bad, wait until what the now very agitated APA has in store for you.

Nic. is fair, equitable, final and binding. Barring mutual consent from east/west, Nothing from any court in the last 5 years has even begun to slightly indicate that's not true.

You guys went all in with USAPA. It didn't work. Either work the rest of your days with Captain rates below other Airline FO rates, or come to your senses and vote for the only sane choice.

Ferguson/Koontz.

NEWSFLASH BUCKO!!!!!! Your glorious APA is in BANKRUPTCY!!!!!!! Tell me now.......what are they in control of.......how are they running the show!!!!! What are they in control of......tell me, curious minds want to know.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

NEWSFLASH BUCKO!!!!!! Your glorious APA is in BANKRUPTCY!!!!!!! Tell me now.......what are they in control of.......how are they running the show!!!!! What are they in control of......tell me, curious minds want to know.

http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/US_Airways_Group_(LCC)/Data/Debt_to_Equity

 

[SparrowHawk]

NEWSFLASH BUCKO!!!!!! Your glorious APA is in BANKRUPTCY!!!!!!! Tell me now.......what are they in control of.......how are they running the show!!!!! What are they in control of......tell me, curious minds want to know.

BUCKO? Who are you? Richie Cunningham? Who plays the Fonz in this little morality play?

 

[Move2CLT]

YOU FORGOT "FRAGMENTATION", the likely scenerio,before "ANY CBA", !

Wake up MM, you're having another wet dream.

 

[cactusboy53]

You pompous ASS!!!! you have no idea what a scab is........I will look you dead in the eye and tell you that with hesitation. This is not IMO..... that is fact!!!!!
what a f.....g idiot

What? Simply because Jack London couldn't have dreamed up USAPA's little "van down by the river" scheme in his wildest dreams? Good times my friend, good times.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

deleted

 

[fifidriver]

How about this one? Always loved Irish rebel songs

At least you finally corrected the spelling, now how about the punctuation? It would make you appear more credible.

 

[fifidriver]

No contract...no NIC...no matter who you vote for. Industry standard or liquidation, whichever comes first.

Now that's a well thought out position!

 

[fifidriver]

You pompous ASS!!!! you have no idea what a scab is........I will look you dead in the eye and tell you that with hesitation. This is not IMO..... that is fact!!!!!
what a f.....g idiot

One of Webster's definitions of "scab" is "a contemptible person", I believe that anyone who still holds a DOH position, fits that description.

 

[Metroyet]

NEWSFLASH BUCKO!!!!!! Your glorious APA is in BANKRUPTCY!!!!!!! Tell me now.......what are they in control of.......how are they running the show!!!!! What are they in control of......tell me, curious minds want to know.

Hey Mr. Cunningham,

Are you suggesting that a pilot group whose employer is in BK in no way poses a threat to another pilot group in the event of a merger? What if the merging pilot group is working for a relatively successful carrier compared to the one in BK? Still feel safe? I know a certain pilot group that violated every labor law there is, flushed a billion dollars down the drain, refuses to fairly represent a 40% of their own members, is willing to go to lengths unimaginable to force their illegal will upon their employer, managed to lose every important Arbitration, lawsuit, and negotiations, handed the company a Permanent Injunction on a Silver platter thus ensuring they had less than zero leverage and generally redefined the term "epic failure"

This from a group TWICE BK with over 1/3rd of their membership UNEMPLOYED at the time of the merger and the remaining 2/3rds staring down the barrel of liquidation.

I'd say you have plenty to fear from the APA.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Ya gotta admit - it's pretty funny when people whose airline has been bankrupt twice, is still working for bottom of the barrel pay and was on the verge of being out of a job can look down their nose at anyone else. That takes a very special personality...

Jim

 

[Pi brat]

Ya gotta admit - it's pretty funny when people whose airline has been bankrupt twice, is still working for bottom of the barrel pay and was on the verge of being out of a job can look down their nose at anyone else. That takes a very special personality...

Jim

Or that pilots from an airline that was started with a bunch of scabs, was the bottom of the barrel in just about every metric for their entire careers, whose CEO comes out and says that their very survival was on the backs of it's employees, that the riding of their employees became the target for network airlines and was known, and not affectionately, as America Worst........... would look down their noses at anyone.

Neither group should be looking down at anyone, but pilots have that special brand of arrogance. We take a job with an airline, usually the one that will hire us, then throw around our greatness. Take credit for the airlines successes, but none of the blame for it's failures. Both airlines turned out to be also rans in this business. But the success or failure has little to do with us. Most of us do the very best job we can, it's up to the managers and our economies on how things turn out.

Even more amazing is the extent you go to bash your former co-workers. Have you decided who you are voting for on yet?

 

[Pi brat]

I received Jamie Javurek's email yesterday and called to ask him why he wasn't going to PHX. I thought he had planned a trip. He told me he just didn't have time with the family and being on reserve. He told me to tell my west friends that if they had any questions to call him and he is glad to talk. Thought I would put it out there since he doesn't do the board anymore.

 

[nic4us]

NEWSFLASH BUCKO!!!!!! Your glorious APA is in BANKRUPTCY!!!!!!! Tell me now.......what are they in control of.......how are they running the show!!!!! What are they in control of......tell me, curious minds want to know.

Well curious mind,

The APA is not in bankruptcy, that would be American Airlines.

The APA would be the overwhelmingly likely surviving union in the event of an AA merger with any smaller airline, and unless they merge with DL or UA, then the merging partner would be the smaller airline. Further, in a LCC/AA merger the APA would be sitting in the position of asking the arbitrator of the eventual seniority integration (based on McCaskill/Bond, ending in AM 3-13) to put the lowest paid pilots on the bottom.

That would be you.

The bottom line answere to your question is another question,,,, who the heck do you think will be "running the show"?......if you think it would be usapa you are as delusional as Claxon.