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East and West – R.I.P.

Thanks to those pilots on the East who have taken the time to email their thoughts and ideas as to how we can end this seniority dispute. First off, we agree that the dispute is harming all of us. There is only one clear winner in this and that is Doug Parker, who continues to harvest hundreds of millions of dollars a year from the East/West strife. Eric Ferguson and I have had enough. Therefore, we built our entire campaign around a platform that will break the impasses between East and West thereby paving the way for a much needed joint contract. Here are the facts.



USAPA was formed in the summer of 2007 with the express purpose of avoiding the Nicolau Arbitration and instead integrating the East and West via DOH. Meanwhile, ALPA’s approach was to facilitate a solution to the East’s objections to the Nicolau through discussions between the separate East and West bargaining agent representatives. What resulted was a competition between ALPA’s plan and USAPA’s “DOH cram-down” plan. As the months wore on, the USAPA plan seemed to hold sway with more and more on the East, which is not surprising given how the plan was being sold by its supporters. The founding legal counsel trumpeted again and again that the law clearly allowed for the majority to force its will onto the minority. It seemed that all the East had to do was to make USAPA the bargaining agent and leave the rest up to Lee Seham. In the confident pronouncement of Scott Theuer, “USAPA doesn’t need a plan B.” What the founders of USAPA didn’t tell you was that they didn’t need a plan B was because they were taking the USAirways pilot groups down a dead-end road with no alternatives.



To cram down DOH on the West, USAPA had to get rid of the separate ratification provision of the Transition Agreement. They could have done that in two ways: (1) propose an amendment to the T/A which eliminated separate ratification and have all parties – East, West, USAPA and the company – sign off; or (2) just eliminate the bargaining agent distinction between East and West which would then eviscerate the separate ratification provision. Choice (1) obviously would have never passed on the West, so USAPA went with (2).



Almost five years later, we now fully feel the effects of that fateful decision. Here is another fact the founders of USAPA never told you – by eliminating separate East and West bargaining agents, USAPA – unlike ALPA – would never be able to negotiate a compromise solution as between East and West. The reason is found in none other than the Rakestraw v. United Airlines decision. Rakestraw was a consolidation of two cases, one being the “539” suit against United and ALPA and the other was a DFR case filed by the Ozark pilots against ALPA. What is relevant in this discussion is the principal fact cited by the 7th Circuit to uphold the dismissal of the Ozark pilots’ case; the Ozark pilots themselves approved by a majority vote the Wraparound Agreement (their name for our Transition Agreement ):



“All of the Ozark pilots’ remaining contentions, variously expressed in terms of the Railway Labor Act, the LMRDA, and the wraparound agreement, founder on their own vote in favor of the merger and the ensuing new collective bargaining agreement. ALPA did not give the consent required by the wraparound agreement until Ozark’s pilots voted in favor of the merger with dovetailed seniority lists.”



We mentioned in a previous blog that it was Lee Seham who filed the application with the National Mediation Board to have the US Airways and America West pilot groups recognized as a Single Transportation System by the NMB. (See 35 NMB 20, 2008.) The company supported the application but ALPA opposed it:



“ALPA asks the Board to undertake a ‘complete analysis of all relevant factors, including the state of operational pilot integration, before making a final determination as to single carrier status’.” 35 NMB 20 at 67.



Think for a moment why ALPA was opposing the application yet USAPA was vying for Single Transportation System (STS) status. In the context of what was happening in the Fall and Winter of 2007, it is easy to see why ALPA and USAPA had divergent views on the matter. USAPA needed STS to eliminate the separate ratification provision of the T/A. ALPA on the other hand, knew that the only path to a negotiated solution would be through separate MECs; what spared ALPA from a DFR from the Ozark pilots was the fact that the Ozark pilots had their own MEC and voted as a separate bargaining unit.



Separate bargaining units provide a buffer between an act and the national union. Any deal on seniority is nothing more than USAPA dealing with itself; there would be zero buffer between the act and the union. By eliminating separate East and West bargaining units, and thus separate ratification, the founders of USAPA effectively strapped a DFR bomb to the chest of the union. ALPA had separate TWA and Ozark MECs for this reason, and it worked for ALPA in defending against the Ozark DFR. Clearly, ALPA was drawing from their experience when they argued to the NMB for keeping East and West as separate units, otherwise there could never be a compromise. This, fellow pilots, is precisely why nobody wants to get close to USAPA – not the Teamsters, not ALPA and definitely not the company. Nobody is going to come anywhere close to the DFR blast radius. This is why there is no “plan B.” Ruminations about what could have been a compromise are nothing more than whispers from the grave. East and West no longer exist.



We are now down to two options: Nicolau and an industry-leading contract, or non-Nicolau and status quo. Eric and I vote for an industry-leading contract containing the Nicolau. What about you?



Sincerely.



Eric and Jeff
 
Not at all. Separate ops is the only thing that all three parties can do absent a ratified JCBA. What I perceive you and Phoenix to be saying is that now that five years have passed since the award that "harm" will come to the east "third listers" and a "benefit" will come to the west pilots who are now on furlough and then count that as yet another reason to reject the validity of the award. If the list had been implemented in 2007, that scenario wouldn't have been possible. Every active east and west pilot would have taken their new, combined seniority position and those who were on furlough at the time of the merger would have come in at the most junior position which is the status all furloughs return to if recalled. The "vacation" in my hypothetical example is the delay period between the award and the implementation of the same. The rightful position of every active, furloughed, and new hire pilot was determined on 5/1/2007. The "squatters" are those formerly furloughed east pilots who will have to move below all west pilots, active or furloughed, upon ratification of the JCBA. Any claim that these "third listers" shouldn't take their rightful positions as determined by the arbitrated award because they are enjoying the benefits of separate ops is irrelevant to the legal question concerning the NIC and a DFR. The fact is that they are not entitled to a higher seniority status than where they were placed by the NIC once the NIC-inclusive JCBA is ratified, regardless of what their separate ops status is in 2012.

I think I understand you now. I'm not trying to sell anything to the third listers. I think they know the score.
 
I absolutely disagree 100%.

I think they see Ferguson as the ying to Cleary's yang, and that little circle has profited them more than guys that turn that circle into cool little stickers.
No, electing any of the east candidates gives management a green light to continue enjoying basically a non-union pilot group and one which will mount no real obstacle to any future merger.
 
I'm not quite so sure about that. Though EF being elected may not be quite as significant as Luvn suggests, I think it would signify something at any rate. If EF is elected, that would be quite an achievement that could not have taken place without some kind of change in the mindset of the east pilots, given the minority status of the west.

I personally think Luvn was putting to much weight onto it though. We've simply had to much ill will over the last few years to magically turn into a wholly unified fighting machine overnight, despite the change in mindset an EF victory would signify. Or at least that's how I imagine it.

It will be an interesting election for sure.

I agree with you on a lot, but I don't know about this. All I can see it signifying to the company is the willingness of a few hundred of the east to vote with the west just to get a contract. If it was a near majority, then yeah I think the company might take notice, but not with how I think it will turn out. The lack of a clear majority may send them the wrong signal, that they can play the percentages and slide another lousy contract in there.

Who knows, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. I'm hoping Silver will rule in a way that brings clarity, but I think we still have a long way to go.
 
No, electing any of the east candidates gives management a green light to continue enjoying basically a non-union pilot group and one which will mount no real obstacle to any future merger.

No, electing EF green lights the company to continue to reap the rewards of our fight. Have you watched the little video fodase posted above? EF promises to keep doing what they have done.
 
I agree with you on a lot, but I don't know about this. All I can see it signifying to the company is the willingness of a few hundred of the east to vote with the west just to get a contract. If it was a near majority, then yeah I think the company might take notice, but not with how I think it will turn out. The lack of a clear majority may send them the wrong signal, that they can play the percentages and slide another lousy contract in there.Who knows, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. I'm hoping Silver will rule in a way that brings clarity, but I think we still have a long way to go.

Actually, that is all I think it will signify if EF wins, and that is what the result would likely be. I've been thinking the last few years that we are destined for a lousy contract no matter what, before we could ever gather ourselves together with what it takes to get a good one. In the interim, coming together east-west, will be lukewarm at best. And the company is way, way, to astute at mining the percentages and capitalizing on weakness.

Even if Silver's ruling brings clarity, I believe what I just wrote above still applies. I think true clarity, will not come to us until the lousy contract is out of the way, we are a generation farther along so to speak. All this nic hoopla, civil war stuff needs to be a bit farther in the rear view mirror, and there is no percieved reason to be jockeying for power and influence between factions. Other than the garden variety jockeying that is.
 
From being routinely marginalized in 8-3 BPR votes to Ferguson being elected president woud signal a sea change within pilot labor. No, I doubt we will be sending each other Valentines right off the bat, but the acrimony will begin to subside once we get rid of those whose very access to power relies on acrimony.

I see what you mean, but freezing out the worst of the acrimony is a far cry from being a wholly unified group of 4,500 or so. It would be nice to see that kind of unity, but I just can't see that any time soon. Just my opinion.
 
I think I understand you now. I'm not trying to sell anything to the third listers. I think they know the score.
And I'm not trying to sell anything either. Rather, I'm just ensuring that facts are presented as facts. So, regardless of what "score" the third listers know or don't know, everyone's position on the integrated seniority list is the same as it was on May 1, 2007, except where a pilot termination may have bumped up everyone junior to that position. The fate of the NIC as being the only possible list for a joint contract was sealed the day USAPA was certified as the CBA, unless of course Silver goes off the rails with a far fetched ruling on count 2.
 
No, electing EF green lights the company to continue to reap the rewards of our fight. Have you watched the little video fodase posted above? EF promises to keep doing what they have done.
Its the Law. Anybody promising anything else is either a complete idiot or a liar.
 
I've written some of the candidates and asked them the following question - no answer thus far.

Should Judge Silver render a ruling which favors the Addington group, or which prompts the company to take the position that they will not expose themselves to a hybrid DFR, would USAPA consider the following:

Grant, bestow, bequeath or whatever you wish to call it, a one time, one issue, defacto veto authority to the PHX domicile on the issue of the SLI.

IOW, return to the west some measure of autonomy and authority much as they enjoyed when they were represented by their own MEC in the days preceding the representational election in 2008.

I know this sounds off the wall, but USAPA has considerable latitude in setting its own protocals. ALPA tried something similar with the Rice Commission and Wye River.

If we don't have a joint seniority list which is IMPLEMENTED so that we are actually bidding based on that list - and if we don't have a JCBA which takes us off LOA93 and C2004, then whatever merger comes along will mean we get to go to the abattoir.

APA, for example, will look at our pay rates, number of W/B aircraft, laugh at our DOH language (or insist that their 1600 furloughees exercise their DOH rights) and offer (out of generosity) to staple us to the bottom of their list.

If we invoke McCaskill-Bond, then that means negotiation, mediation and arbitration....once again. The arbitrator will consider the above factors, along with the absence of a DOH based SLI since Reagan was president, and probably rule as Nicolau did (if we're lucky).
 
Grant, bestow, bequeath or whatever you wish to call it, a one time, one issue, defacto veto authority to the PHX domicile on the issue of the SLI.

That would solve the veto quandary so nothing could be forced on the west but not anything else. USAPA is still the only CBA for the entire group and can't unbreak that egg so any negotiated settlement would still be impossible to achieve. I just don't see the west coming off the Nic far enough to vote for a USAPA solution that satisfies the east or USAPA offering a solution that satisfies both the east and west. USAPA bound itself to a path that guaranteed that only the courts could decide this.
Jim
 
If we merge before a contract, NIC could be the one that got away. I would suggest the West use their attorney to do some type of negotiation before we merge. A bird in the hand so to speak. As you have seen, winning a lawsuit and collecting are two very different things.

East alpa forming east usapa carves the NIC IN STONE with a joint contract with lcc or any merger going forward via the TA. Single class and craft was the DUMBEST thing the founders of usapa asked for and received from the NMB. Of course, this was supported by lcc vp labor east al hemenway with a letter to the NMB stating such.

By now, most east pilots should know how it feels to be lied to and reamed from their so-called union rep's. A so-called honest east union and company talking heads of crew news and this board don't replace FEDERAL LAW and statements and affidavits made in front of a current Federal Judge and past Federal Judge and Jury.

Statements made in lcc crew news don't mean squat along with the corrupt usapa cbl's and the bobble heads/dumb brain trust from clt.

I suggest you read and try and understand the latest statements made in Federal Court by lcc attorney Robert Siegel concerning the companies position and what they MUST HONOR.......answer === THE NIC.

OTTER
 
Aweome presentation!!!

Finally some sanity is introduced to USAPA

HA HA HA!!!!

Pure horsecrap!

Between this video and Res Judicata's spewing of his vile, you guys are just driving everyone on the fence to the East vote.

Bottom line....it's all about attrition and who is going to capture it. Well, it wasn't yours in the first place.

breeze
 
Aweome presentation!!!

Finally some sanity is introduced to USAPA

With all do respect, nothing in what they say gives me any comfort that they intend to restore sanity to anything. Their whole diatribe about the Nic does not convince anyone that they intend fix our broken pilot group. They are right that USAirways was bankrupt and that we lost our pensions. What they fail to recognize, as do some on the east, is that we did not lose our profession. You'll have to say more than "NIC NIC NIC" to get the votes to win. Tell me your solution/compromise to resolve our battle and I will give you my vote, but without that, the devil I know is always better than the one I don't and I would just as soon finish my career that way!
 
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