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HA HA HA!!!!

Pure horsecrap!

Between this video and Res Judicata's spewing of his vile, you guys are just driving everyone on the fence to the East vote.

Bottom line....it's all about attrition and who is going to capture it. Well, it wasn't yours in the first place.

breeze

Angry f/o, so do you wear four stripes too?
The only way out of this mess you created is the arbitrated seniority list, if ever you are enlightened enough to understand only then the pilot group will move forward. Otherwise, enjoy your bankruptcy contract.
Regarding your attrition, you cant have mine with your DOH fantasy- the law stands on my side.
 
Tell me your solution/compromise to resolve our battle and I will give you my vote, but without that, the devil I know is always better than the one I don't and I would just as soon finish my career that way!

You can follow the contract between us or you can stay on your bankruptcy wages for a while longer. That choice is yours. Vote EF/ JK, vote for progress, vote for a solution.
 
I've written some of the candidates and asked them the following question - no answer thus far.

Should Judge Silver render a ruling which favors the Addington group, or which prompts the company to take the position that they will not expose themselves to a hybrid DFR, would USAPA consider the following:

Grant, bestow, bequeath or whatever you wish to call it, a one time, one issue, defacto veto authority to the PHX domicile on the issue of the SLI.

IOW, return to the west some measure of autonomy and authority much as they enjoyed when they were represented by their own MEC in the days preceding the representational election in 2008.

I know this sounds off the wall, but USAPA has considerable latitude in setting its own protocals. ALPA tried something similar with the Rice Commission and Wye River.

If we don't have a joint seniority list which is IMPLEMENTED so that we are actually bidding based on that list - and if we don't have a JCBA which takes us off LOA93 and C2004, then whatever merger comes along will mean we get to go to the abattoir.

APA, for example, will look at our pay rates, number of W/B aircraft, laugh at our DOH language (or insist that their 1600 furloughees exercise their DOH rights) and offer (out of generosity) to staple us to the bottom of their list.

If we invoke McCaskill-Bond, then that means negotiation, mediation and arbitration....once again. The arbitrator will consider the above factors, along with the absence of a DOH based SLI since Reagan was president, and probably rule as Nicolau did (if we're lucky).
Your premiss has alot of variables, do you honestly see a JCBA(the company will want it with the COC provision removed, along with SCOPE)! Getting passed, no-way, 2bill in debt and AA in control of their own destiny, (LCC will not be a player)! To many other players with real value! LCC toast in 5 years!
 
East alpa forming east usapa carves the NIC IN STONE with a joint contract with lcc or any merger going forward via the TA. Single class and craft was the DUMBEST thing the founders of usapa asked for and received from the NMB. Of course, this was supported by lcc vp labor east al hemenway with a letter to the NMB stating such.

By now, most east pilots should know how it feels to be lied to and reamed from their so-called union rep's. A so-called honest east union and company talking heads of crew news and this board don't replace FEDERAL LAW and statements and affidavits made in front of a current Federal Judge and past Federal Judge and Jury.

Statements made in lcc crew news don't mean squat along with the corrupt usapa cbl's and the bobble heads/dumb brain trust from clt.

I suggest you read and try and understand the latest statements made in Federal Court by lcc attorney Robert Siegel concerning the companies position and what they MUST HONOR.......answer === THE NIC.

OTTER
Actually the BETTER ARGUMENTS will be submitted shortly, stay tuned to ole RS and the companies position!
 



Well at least their first admission, after they introduced themselves, was their self-righteous rejection of the pilots constitution and intention to implement the NIC, and closes with the assertion that E.F. will let those dissatisfied with the NIC sue the union for DFR. He has no intention to be unified but promotes untruths and disunity for his benefit.

How odd... the Plaintiff is offering to swap places with the Defendant. :blink: And argues that in a DFR suit it is preferable to be the defendant. Duh. 😉
 
Angry f/o, so do you wear four stripes too?
The only way out of this mess you created is the arbitrated seniority list, if ever you are enlightened enough to understand only then the pilot group will move forward. Otherwise, enjoy your bankruptcy contract.
Regarding your attrition, you cant have mine with your DOH fantasy- the law stands on my side.

Angry, no....just stating the facts from our perspective. That's the problem, the perspective.....ours totally different than yours.

The thing that you guys in the West need to understand is that your hardline stance is just driving votes away.

Tell me what you would do in this scenario:

Vote for someone representing the NIC, accept the fact that you will retire in the right seat, and pray every day that we would get anywhere close to an industry contract. (fantasy, IMHO....and senior FOs will be lucky to get up around $120/hr)

Or, vote to stand up for better SLI, not accepting the flawed NIC....and in doing so, accept the fact that you will be on LOA93 for the rest of your career. However, in doing so, you get back in the left seat, due to your EARNED attrition, along with drawing your PBGC money at age 60...which works out to be about $155/hr.

For me, the later scenario is the most promising. Ferguson's hype and Res Judicata's vile are a pipe dream.

breeze
 
You can follow the contract between us or you can stay on your bankruptcy wages for a while longer. That choice is yours. Vote EF/ JK, vote for progress, vote for a solution.

I'm sorry. I don't think you understand what I said. Let me be more clear...

First, please stop telling me about bankruptcy wages, we are long passed that(meaning numb)!

I only heard those 2 guys talk about the Nic. If that is their solution, I and many others would prefer to maintain status quo. then to see the current west pilots come into my current base, possibly displacing me, not only out of base, but out of the left seat! Don't believe me? I have seen it happen too many times.

The bottom line is, the Nic isn't progress for many and as I said it is not a solution either.
 
You can follow the contract between us or you can stay on your bankruptcy wages for a while longer. That choice is yours. Vote EF/ JK, vote for progress, vote for a solution.

E.F. doesn't appear to have a solution to the internal union dispute, other than trying to inflame disunity to turn the senior pilots on the junior pilots, to effectively achieve capitulation, of course.

Funny, I did not hear him say one word about the company and how they are treating the pilots. Management is free and and clear... Its all the pilots fault. And just like the union that was replaced, pilots are being called on to sell out each other for a vapid promise of a little bit more porridge.
 
Actually the BETTER ARGUMENTS will be submitted shortly, stay tuned to ole RS and the companies position!

Mm, I guess your referring to Robert Siegel/RS, http://www.omm.com/bobsiegel/ A proclaimed expert on RLA law. One that also shot down usapa's corrupt LS, better known as millionaire (thank you usapa) lee seham and his theories on final and binding/RLA law.

Mm, not very surprising how east suckers like you bought into his line of bullshit (LS) given your past dumb east union experiences.

Rakestraw v. United Airlines, Inc., 981 F.2d 1524 (7th Cir. 1992) – Successfully represented United Airlines in a multiple-plaintiff challenge to a collective bargaining agreement that altered the plaintiffs’ seniority rights, establishing the legal standard for carrier liability in a duty of fair representation case.


OTTER
 
One of the west's strongest arguments has been that they are unable to compromise, that they have no legal status to negotiate and compromise because the representational election did away with their autonomy and veto power.

Ferguson uses the same excuse for not moving an inch off the Nic.

My scenario takes that excuse away from the west. It also presumes that the east must likewise move off it's position.

And finally, it removes the company's excuse for not bargaining in good faith, namely, that a resolution to the seniority issue must come first.

Just sayin.
 
Mm, I guess your referring to Robert Siegel/RS, http://www.omm.com/bobsiegel/ A proclaimed expert on RLA law. One that also shot down usapa's corrupt LS, better known as millionaire (thank you usapa) lee seham and his theories on final and binding/RLA law.

Mm, not very surprising how east suckers like you bought into his line of bullshit (LS) given your past dumb east union experiences.

Rakestraw v. United Airlines, Inc., 981 F.2d 1524 (7th Cir. 1992) – Successfully represented United Airlines in a multiple-plaintiff challenge to a collective bargaining agreement that altered the plaintiffs’ seniority rights, establishing the legal standard for carrier liability in a duty of fair representation case.


OTTER

You seem to be arguing that East Suckers should vote for E.F.
 
My scenario takes that excuse away from the west.

Having a veto is not the same as having a separate CBA to negotiate on the west's behalf. Eliminating the separation of representation locked USAPA into the position of having no one to negotiate a compromise with. Restoring west veto authority does not change that - it only lets either side veto a court imposed SLI solution but leaves neither side with the ability to negotiate anything different.

Jim
 
One of the west's strongest arguments has been that they are unable to compromise, that they have no legal status to negotiate and compromise because the representational election did away with their autonomy and veto power.

Ferguson uses the same excuse for not moving an inch off the Nic.

My scenario takes that excuse away from the west. It also presumes that the east must likewise move off it's position.

And finally, it removes the company's excuse for not bargaining in good faith, namely, that a resolution to the seniority issue must come first.

Just sayin.

I would have to wonder why anyone would argue against independent ratification. The 9th held the position that the NIC could not be ratified and acknowledged that USAPA was as free as ALPA was to make amendments in the SLI method. Under ALAP, the 9th knew that veto authority on both sides would have inevitably forced a resolution of the internal union dispute (Even E.F. acknowledges it is an internal union dispute. He is running for president and didn't even mention the company :lol:).
 
I would have to wonder why anyone would argue against independent ratification.
You mean like USAPA...one of their first actions after the election was to eliminate it. :lol:

How many easties put their faith in "majority rules" after USAPA was elected? They seemed to be cheering the elimination of independent ratification. Perchance you were among them... 😛

Jim
 
One of the west's strongest arguments has been that they are unable to compromise, that they have no legal status to negotiate and compromise because the representational election did away with their autonomy and veto power.

Ferguson uses the same excuse for not moving an inch off the Nic.

My scenario takes that excuse away from the west. It also presumes that the east must likewise move off it's position.

And finally, it removes the company's excuse for not bargaining in good faith, namely, that a resolution to the seniority issue must come first.

Just sayin.

What do my legal rights and your legal rights in regards to a (mine forced) hired CBA mean to you? usapa sealed the deal (NIC) with single class and craft....dumb IMO

BTW, the company has said repeatedly, it cannot and will not negotiate seniority with usapa.

It's DONE via an accepted process called for in the TA, better known as the NIC.

OTTER
 
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