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US Pilots Labor Discussion

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If USAirways furloughs 1000 pilots how many are East pilots under DOH with C&Rs?

The Nicolau Award does not advance anyone because longevity is not seniority.

If you were the last pilot hired at USAir and they hired no one for 10 years are you anymore senior at year ten than year one?
The answer to your question is so mind-numbingly simple I'm going to guess there won't be more than 1 in 1,000 east pilots who could give you a correct response. Facts, logic and having a grasp of the obvious are just things that get in the way of their irrational mis-characterizations of the NIC award.
 
Longevity is not seniority... Then why don't we fill Capt. Positions by our performance in the sim, or by submitting a resume to the chief pilot?
 
Hey, let's bid vacation by shoe size....or domicles by hair color... Is that the way it's done out west? Or does your hire date have more to do with it?
 
Longevity is not seniority... Then why don't we fill Capt. Positions by our performance in the sim, or by submitting a resume to the chief pilot?
You can't possible be serious.

We fill Captain positions by seniority, not longevity. Ask the Shuttle and Empire pilots.

Ask the Delta and Northwest pilots if they use longevity to bid Captain positions.

Of course when you get hired you go to the bottom of the seniority list.

Are you going to answer my question?

If you were the last pilot hired at USAir and they hired no one for 10 years are you anymore senior at year ten than year one?
 
Longevity is not seniority... Then why don't we fill Capt. Positions by our performance in the sim, or by submitting a resume to the chief pilot?
Perhaps because using any other method other than what was determined by binding arbitration would be a breach of contract and a breach of USAPA's duty to fair representation under a JCBA. You can't do it that way today or anytime prior to the joint contract because seniority for both east and west groups has already been established in the current CBA's under section 22 of the respective contracts. Filling vacant positions is determined by contractual agreements. Contrary to what is often posted here, when people violate the terms of a contract they usually find themselves on the losing end of a court ruling. The other problem with your proposal is that doing so would require Management complicity and since they are notoriously adverse to exposing the company to legal liabilities, they won't go along with out of seniority pilot assignments which are clearly defined in the CBA's.
 
Hey, let's bid vacation by shoe size....or domicles by hair color... Is that the way it's done out west? Or does your hire date have more to do with it?
You know this act where you all just play stupid and pretend not to understand the most basic functions of your profession is getting a little old. It's cost you over a billion dollars and when AA is through with you, you'll be begging for Nic. Hopefully the majority of Easties are a hell of a lot smarter than you and choose the only candidates that have a prayer of moving fwd. and protecting you in the next merger. Ferguson/Koontz/Holmes.
 
You're splitting hairs, the two methods were fundamentally the same.

You may know more about DL/NW, but that is one of my points. We know the Nicolau(at least those of us that have studied it), but may not DL/NW. Why not use the one you know? One of my problems with the Nic was the WB "protection" scheme of giving the east all WB positions on top, not just the captains. I think that would deliver more like 700 of the top slots to DL, then we start with the others.
 
Hey, let's bid vacation by shoe size....or domicles by hair color... Is that the way it's done out west? Or does your hire date have more to do with it?
Its done in compliance with Section 22 of the CBA just like it's done at AAA and every other represented pilot group in the USA. That is also how it will be done once USAPA (or whoever the next CBA might be) and Management get a ratified JCBA to replace LOA93 & C2004. I would say a a general rule, airlines that haven't gone through a merger are organized by DOH (like HP prior to 2005) while those that have gone through a merger or acquisition process are no longer organized via a DOH because DOH becomes less meaningful when two or more separate companies are integrated into one.
 
“a union may not juggle the seniority roster for no reason other than to advance one group of employees over another” or to punish a disfavored group, Rakestraw v. United Airlines, 981 F.2d 1524, 1535 (7th Cir.1992);  see also Teamsters Local Union No. 42, 825 F.2d at 612 (“[W]hen a union attempts to prefer [one group of] workers based solely on [their loyalty to their guild],” it has breached its duty.).

I know but the AFA has DOH in it's policy and I don't believe it has been found to be illegal, right? So it would be what USAPA wants to do and as of today, that has not been found illegal as Addington was dismissed. Judge Silver may give them all they need to deviate from the C&BLs without fear of DFR, I don't know.
 
Well, at least you are asking questions. May I suggest that you put your questions to the Ferguson / Koontz blog? They have promised to read all inquiries and address said questions in the Ferguson/Koontz blog. I have NO DOUBT that many of us will reprint these responses to your questions right here on this website.

Give it a shot Pi, you may be plesantly surprised: http://www.fergusonforpresident.com/

I have CB, I already told you that. I have gotten some answers, and my conversations with Koontz have been very cordial. I think the politics have clouded things with all candidates primarily looking at their support base, so I feel that I'm trying to read between the lines.
 
I know but the AFA has DOH in it's policy and I don't believe it has been found to be illegal, right? So it would be what USAPA wants to do and as of today, that has not been found illegal as Addington was dismissed. Judge Silver may give them all they need to deviate from the C&BLs without fear of DFR, I don't know.
If the ALPA merger policy call for integration by DOH, then there would not be a discussion about this today. If USAPA had existed prior to the merger and the signing of the TA, and USAPA's merger policy was agreed to by both representative groups, then it wouldn't be an issue either. However, trying to retroactively enforce a policy change against existing legal agreements is probably futile unless you get a judge who makes things up as they go along rather than reading the letter of the law or the letter of the agreements signed between parties. Expecting Silver to deviate from those tenets is quite a tall order IMO.
 
If the ALPA merger policy call for integration by DOH, then there would not be a discussion about this today. If USAPA had existed prior to the merger and the signing of the TA, and USAPA's merger policy was agreed to by both representative groups, then it wouldn't be an issue either. However, trying to retroactively enforce a policy change against existing legal agreements if you get a judge who makes things up as they go along rather than reading the letter of the law or the letter of the agreements signed between parties. Expecting Silver to deviate from those tenets is quite a tall order IMO.
They get all this. They're just hoping that if they keep playing dumb the rest of society will begin to see it their way.
 
They get all this. They're just hoping that if they keep playing dumb the rest of society will begin to see it their way.

Go back and see why I originally asked the question. It is about what Ferguson says in his video.
 
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