US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nic4us]

Ferguson/Koontz to unite the pilot group, and provide an improved contract sooner than later? Their "head buried in the sand" approach is to totally disregard the concerns of the East, and shove the NIC down the pilots throat at all cost. We've seen how effective that has been...

I do not think you understand the AOL platform,,,either that or I do not understand it.

The way I understand it is that they are actually very concerned with the position of east pilots, particularly those who have unneccesarily endured LOA93 while the current and past usapa guard have persued frivoulous lawsuits and grievences to score an ever increasingly difficult hail mary attempt at reneging on binding arbitration.

I also think one of us has misconception of what the "concerns of the east" entail. I think that the east has many concerns. For instance Nic vs a non-Nic seniority list and the career effects of one over the other. The promise of spending the last 10-15 years on LOA 93 is another, as is senior east pilots being locked out of opportunities they otherwise would have under a joint contract.

To sum, if you do not like their platform, don't vote for them. However, do not be surprised if/when the "concerns of the east" do not match your individual concerns.

 

[nic4us]

How can you say that when you've never even gotten into the ballpark of being allowed to vote on a Nic. Inclusive contract? Nothing has been rejected...ever. Not officially anyway. Vote McKee to keep flushing hundreds of millions of dollars a year away. Vote McKee if you want APA to use you as a suppository. Vote Hummell if you want the illusion that the union will be "functional". It won't. The only way to move fwd. is to finally accept the UNCONTESTED REALITY of the situation and that is that the Nic. is fair, equitable, final and binding. Everybody gets it accept for the dwindling AFO's. Ferguson/Koontz are trying to protect you from yourself....a completely lost cause for some.

You are asking quite a bit from them there Res.

The only thing these guys got right in the past 7 years has been that they could bust a union, strip the West of representation and throw ALPA off the property.

However, they even got the why they could do that wrong.

Maybe, just maybe, when you add up the east pilots who have known all along this has been a failed strategy, with the east pilots who are now figuring it out, add to that some 3rd listers who knows who now has a majority of votes?

 

[nic4us]

Penn and Teller would like to direct your attention away from the elephant in the room while they pull a handkerchief out of their sleeve. Their NIC at all cost has been heard before and rejected....

It is not Nic at all cost...

It is,... we know what a non-Nic cost,,,are you still willing to pay it?

 

[nic4us]

Here is a question for the board.

Do furloughed pilots get to vote?

 

[Metroyet]

It is not Nic at all cost...

It is,... we know what a non-Nic cost,,,are you still willing to pay it?

It's really pretty simple. Nic. Is the law. Anything else is illegal. Contracts never contain sections that simply violate the law. Majorities and the c&bls are a pointless diversion. Vote West, or watch the tail slide continue ad infinitum.

 

[cactusboy53]

Lurkers: Ask HOW the Ferguson/Koontz/Holmes team is going to speed to a new contract. There are few details in their messages that spell out their plan. They are offering no salve to the wounds that have kept us on this stupid fight for 4 year now. Just "get over it so we can move on". It hasn't worked in 4 years, how will it now? It seems they are saying "you better get on board because if you don't a new merger will leave you in a really, really crappy position instead of the just really crappy position the Nic has you in". I'm not in the bottom part of the seniority list, but I don't think settling for "just really crappy" would sway me.

Here are a few questions you might want to ask. Let me know if you get a good answer:
-You keep saying the "illegal DOH....". Is DOH in the C&BLs illegal, or is it the manner that USAPA is trying to use it illegal? Contrary to the Ferguson/Koontz videos, it is not illegal as of today because Addington was overturned, right? Will a Silver opinion be enough to prevent an east DFR from east disenfranchised pilots that feel they have nothing to lose? The Addington suit was very effective in delay. AOL put a template out there, will a few hundred disenfranchised east pilots form a LLC and go hire, oh maybe Lee Seham to sue USAPA if they don't appeal?
-I know you see no way that Judge Silver will rule in a way that is contrary to the best interests of the west pilots, but you thought the same about the judges in SFO. If you get an unfavorable ruling, will you still stop the legal fight?
-Can the president and vice president alone make the decision to not appeal a Silver ruling? What about the BPR? Won't they have a say?
-In their message about a merger with DL, they speak of the DL/NW method of slotting, not the Nic method, the one they are defending. How come?

We started down the legal road and I'm afraid we will have to keep going until we get a definitive answer.

I will say one thing for Ferguson/Koontz/Holmes team. I think they would be able to form a better relationship with management(IF, they get their way with the Nic) than we have had over the last 4 years, and I think that would be a good thing right now. With a possible merger out there I think our management may now want to work with us. But, if Judge Silver rules in a way they don't like, will they keep fighting the battle instead of looking for new solutions? If they dig THEIR heels in, it won't matter how they play with others.

I think either Gary Hummel or Steve Sevier can work with management and either is a better choice for really moving forward. I like McKee and think he has a role in our union, just not a president.

Well, at least you are asking questions. May I suggest that you put your questions to the Ferguson / Koontz blog? They have promised to read all inquiries and address said questions in the Ferguson/Koontz blog. I have NO DOUBT that many of us will reprint these responses to your questions right here on this website.

Give it a shot Pi, you may be plesantly surprised: http://www.fergusonforpresident.com/

 

[fodase]

Campaign Consistency

Dear US Airways Pilots,



The links below represent an inclusive record of all USAPA campaign material I have published to date. This record includes messages from the EVP Special Election in the Spring of 2010, as well as literature from the PHX Vice-Chairman Special Election held in the Fall of 2010:



Eric Ferguson EVP Campaign Message of 30APR10
Eric Ferguson EVP Campaign Message of 07MAY10
Eric Ferguson EVP Campaign Message of 10MAY10
Eric Ferguson EVP Campaign Message of 12MAY10
Eric Ferguson EVP Campaign Message of 14MAY10
Eric Ferguson EVP Campaign Message of 17MAY10
Eric Ferguson EVP Campaign Message of 18MAY10
Eric Ferguson EVP Campaign Message of 19MAY10
Eric Ferguson PHX Vice Chair Campaign Message of 27AUG10
Eric Ferguson PHX Vice Chair Campaign Message of 22OCT10
Eric Ferguson PHX Vice Chair Campaign Message of 27OCT10
Eric Ferguson Presidential Campaign Message 06FEB12
Eric Ferguson Presidential Campaign Message 16FEB12



I encourage you to examine the information I have disseminated in the past, and contemplate the consistency and stability of my message over the years. Unlike other candidates in this race, you can review everything I have written and find it to have been accurate, if not prophetic. Imagine where the pilots of US Airways would be today had they chosen the path which I have long recommended.



Do not miss this chance to change the course of your future, and our union for the better. Everyone else has had their chance, and our pilots have nothing to show for it. Now is the time to vote for Eric Ferguson for USAPA President, Jeff Koontz for USAPA Vice President, and Ken Holmes for USAPA Executive Vice President. Real change is now just over the horizon.



Sincerely,

Eric Ferguson

You can find the links here: http://www.fergusonforpresident.com/blog/?p=136

 

[prechilill]

Here is a question for the board.

Do furloughed pilots get to vote?

How 'bout pilots on MLA?

 

[BoeingBoy]

I believe USAPA follows ALPA policy - only active members in good standing can vote - but I don't have the C&B/L's in front of me.

Jim

 

[traderjake]

-You keep saying the "illegal DOH....". Is DOH in the C&BLs illegal, or is it the manner that USAPA is trying to use it illegal?

“a union may not juggle the seniority roster for no reason other than to advance one group of employees over another” or to punish a disfavored group, Rakestraw v. United Airlines, 981 F.2d 1524, 1535 (7th Cir.1992);  see also Teamsters Local Union No. 42, 825 F.2d at 612 (“[W]hen a union attempts to prefer [one group of] workers based solely on [their loyalty to their guild],” it has breached its duty.).

 

[traderjake]

-In their message about a merger with DL, they speak of the DL/NW method of slotting, not the Nic method, the one they are defending. How come?

You're splitting hairs, the two methods were fundamentally the same.

 

[high*flyer]

“a union may not juggle the seniority roster for no reason other than to advance one group of employees over another” or to punish a disfavored group.

Tell me please, how does DOH with C&R "advance" one pilot group more than the NIC?

 

[fodase]

“a union may not juggle the seniority roster for no reason other than to advance one group of employees over another” or to punish a disfavored group.

Tell me please, how does DOH with C&R "advance" one pilot group more than the NIC?

Well if doesn't, why don't you just accept the Nic?

 

[Res Judicata]

“a union may not juggle the seniority roster for no reason other than to advance one group of employees over another” or to punish a disfavored group.

Tell me please, how does DOH with C&R "advance" one pilot group more than the NIC?

I believe a Jury of your peers already answered that for you. It took them about 90 minutes to get what USAPA is all about.

 

[traderjake]

a union may not juggle the seniority roster for no reason other than to advance one group of employees over another” or to punish a disfavored group.

Tell me please, how does DOH with C&R "advance" one pilot group more than the NIC?

If USAirways furloughs 1000 pilots how many are East pilots under DOH with C&Rs?

The Nicolau Award does not advance anyone because longevity is not seniority.

If you were the last pilot hired at USAir and they hired no one for 10 years are you anymore senior at year ten than year one?