US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Bear96]

The arbitrator got it wrong, plain and simple... That is why this is so contentious, because it's all so outrageous!

In your opinion, which is now irrelevant.

Again, that is the risk of going to arbitration.

Too bad the East's attorneys never explained this way back when (or maybe they did and no one listened).

 

[aquagreen73s]

OK, this is your cue to post some senseless about being a F/A because you cannot come up with anything of substance or relevance. 🙄 (You must be a joy for F/As to fly with.)

He's either going to say he wasn't talking to you or that if he wanted to go after someone easy, he would have gone after you. At least, that what he said to me last night over his shoulder as he was high tailing it away . . .

 

[cleardirect]

We never heard you say anything when the Empire guys were stapled at PI .......so you could enjoy your C/O slot until your well deserved retirement. Not one peep from the sage Mr. Jim, the ALPA spokesman. You just hunkered down and kept closing those bids.

A seventeen year unbroken service pilot never goes behind a new hire, and a 21 year C/O never goes behind a 9 year pilot at AWA. Not going to happen Jim. I agreed to binding arbitration when I bought my last car. That did not give away my house in the process.

You are a real piece of work. Thank goodness the age 65 law missed you, we are all glad you are off our list. Shame on any of us for ever respecting your "seniority."

RR

And a furloughed pilot is never going to go ahead of 66% of our captains and 80% of our entire list.

I don't care how many years the furloughed guy had. FURLOUGHED =NO JOB!!!!

During the Trump merger AAA proposed a W-2 method of integration. How did that respect seniority? Where was the indignation then?

 

[aquagreen73s]

During the Trump merger AAA proposed a W-2 method of integration. How did that respect seniority? Where was the indignation then?

Clear, you apparently didn't get the KoolAide memo: that which you describe was under ALPA. See, USAPA is completely different and separate from those players.

 

[cleardirect]

Clear, you apparently didn't get the KoolAide memo: that which you describe was under ALPA. See, USAPA is completely different and separate from those players.

I forgot. It is only the leadership that matters on the east. The poor line pilot had no say, no power, no voice. They were lead around like children. That according to Seham the arbitration only applided to the people at the table. Change leadership change the deals.

Oh wait. I was just looking at something. What do the transcripts from the arbitration say? The crew members. Not the leadership, not ALPA, not merger committee. The crew members of each airline.

4 THE CREW MEMBERS OF :
5 US AIRWAYS :
6 Plaintiff, :
7 vs. :
8 THE CREW MEMBERS OF :
9 AMERICA WEST AIRLINES :
10 Defendant. :
11 - - - - - - - - - - - - -x
12
13 HEARING
14
15 GEORGE NICOLAU, Chairman
16 CAPTAIN STEVE GILLEN, Pilot Neutral
17 CAPTAIN JIM BRUCIA, Pilot Neutral

 

[usabusdriver]

...
From August 17, 2007 until the date of
ALPA’s decertification on April 18, 2008, there were
no further negotiations towards a single CBA
between ALPA and US Airways. Id. at 1178. An
impasse had arisen, and it was an impasse of
potentially indefinite duration since neither the TA
nor ALPA Merger Policy contained a timetable or
deadline within which to complete a new, single CBA.
...

MM,

The impasse as proclaimed in your cut and paste has me a bit perplexed. Please explain the impasse in detail and how it developed as it pertains to actions and positions at the negotiating table between the company and ALPA.

The prolific rhetoric used to cover the union's actions has a small yet fatal flaw. The only potential for impasse was with membership ratification if and when it got to that point, and not negotiations between the company and ALPA. To extend the flawed premise that an impasse in negotiations magically sprung forth in August of 2007 between the company and ALPA and usapa was needed to break the "impasse" in negotiations is farcical at best.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Let me help focus you since you are still hopelessly wandering around in the weeds spouting irrelevancies. (It is really pitiful to watch.)

The fulcrum of the argument is that the East is refusing to honor a binding arbitration decision. You might not like the decision, but that is the risk of going to arbitration.

A route map has nothing to do with where you are today - especially when the route map is from 2010 / going on 2011 and the arbitration decision is from several years prior.

OK, this is your cue to post some senseless about being a F/A because you cannot come up with anything of substance or relevance. 🙄 (You must be a joy for F/As to fly with.)

And folks here you have it another edition of "SERVING CART SIDEBAR" heck you should get HPfa to join you and maybe you can start a law show on TV and call it" PA LAW" MM!(

 

[cactusboy53]

What's funny is that by comparing 2010 to 2005, 320 indirectly admits the airline is not the same. It's never the same.

Tell us about when AWA has furloughed in the past, please. No one want to answer that question. Everyone knows about the East Furloughs....

AWA furloughed 179 pilots after 9/11(two waves in October & November 2001). Some were off as little as 4 months. The longest out was about a year or so. I think everyone returned by the first of 2003. AWA was the first major airline to have all of its furloughed employees return after 9/11.

We started growing, getting aircraft, hiring and upgrading. We hired some great pilots that were furloughed from TWA/AA, US Air, United, etc (many of which remain here). AWA pilots negotiated the first post-9/11 contract that was an improvement over our previous contract with some better working conditions. By the first part of 2005 the pilots upgrading were on property around 6.5 years or so. AWA was making money and according to industry experts were not anywhere near another bankruptcy.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

MM,

The impasse as proclaimed in your cut and paste has me a bit perplexed. Please explain the impasse in detail and how it developed as it pertains to actions and positions at the negotiating table between the company and ALPA.

The prolific rhetoric used to cover the union's actions has a small yet fatal flaw. The only potential for impasse was with membership ratification if and when it got to that point, and not negotiations between the company and ALPA. To extend the flawed premise that an impasse in negotiations magically sprung forth in August of 2007 between the company and ALPA and usapa was needed to break the "impasse" in negotiations is farcical at best.

Enjoy your farce! Not surprised your perplexed! How did the AOL flyer work for ya? MM!

 

[cleardirect]

Enjoy your farce! Not surprised your perplexed! How did the AOL flyer work for ya? MM!

With all of the disjointed vomiting that comes from your posts. I have to ask. How many voices do you hear in your head and is there one in charge or do they all have equal control over what you write?

How do these statements even belong in the same post? there are not connected by anything.

 

[prechilill]

With all of the disjointed vomiting that comes from your posts. I have to ask. How many voices do you hear in your head and is there one in charge or do they all have equal control over what you write?

How do these statements even belong in the same post? there are not connected by anything.

Anybody know how our comic book super hero is doing this morning? I'm a little worried about him after the super meltdown he had last night with Jim.

 

[prechilill]

Anybody up for a dogfight??? I'm feelin' a little eastus...

 

[AWA320]

Anybody know how our comic book super hero is doing this morning? I'm a little worried about him after the super meltdown he had last night with Jim.

He like oldie but goodie runs and has to lie to himself in order to keep posting but its those damn facts that keep getting in the way. They wish the facts would just leave and not bother them anymore so that the lies make sense to them 🙄

AWA320

 

[AWA320]

Anybody up for a dogfight??? I'm feelin' a little eastus...

I'm loaded and ready when's the party??

AWA320

 

[Captain Underpants]

The fulcrum of the argument is that the East is refusing to honor a binding arbitration decision.

Bear,

Well OK then how do you explain that the West has lost every challenge claiming the Nic award is binding.

• ALPA immediately set up the Rice committee and Wye river to change the terms of the seniority decision.
• USAPA immediately changed the proposed integrated seniority list to DOH with C&R's.
• The West pilots have lost two system board grievances claiming a contractual right to try to force the company to use the Nic award for furlough and as a company bargaining position in the next contract.
• The Addington DFR claim and damages claims were both dismissed by the 9th circuit.
• The En Banc appeal to the 9th circuit was rejected.
• The Addington appeal of the 9th circuit's decision back to Judge Wake was dismissed. (surprise)
• The appeal to the Supreme court has even the AOL attorneys telling the West pilots to expect it to fail
• The Addington appeal to Judge Silver is now subject to a rule 11 frivolous filing challenge.
• Any new DFR lawsuit which itself would face extremely long odds has to wait until after a DOH seniority list is ratified into a new contract.
  

Any reasonable person would have to conclude that the "binding" arbitration is obviously not "binding".

underpants