US Pilots Labor Discussion

[FL430]

What about the "grocery store" line the west pilots were standing in before the east came along? The west was standing in an efficient line that was moving and had no one standing outside the store just waiting for a chance to get in. By contrast the east was standing in a crowded, inefficient grocery store line that was moving people through the queue at a snails pace compared to every other grocery store in the country. For every two people in line inside the east grocery store there was another person who wanted to come in to buy groceries but the supply of food was dwindling or spoiled with no supply trucks lined up to restock the shelves.

Then one day the managers of the two stores, the west one that was running efficiently with stocked shelves and no one waiting outside to get in and the east one that was inefficient, running severe shortages and with people standing outside to get in line, decided they would merge and combine the operations and customers of both stores. They told the customers that they could decide on their own how to best get in line at the new, bigger store with fully stocked shelves so that everyone could benefit from the merger. After some time and with no real resolution, the representatives from both groups of customers decided to let a neutral, third-party arbitrator decide how to integrate their ranks. The arbitrator made his final and binding and fully legal decision on the integration and then the east customers decided that they didn't want to integrate with the group from the west after all. Despite the arbitrator's ruling, they wanted virtually all of the west customers to get in line behind them at the new store, especially since the new store was now fully stocked and everyone who was previously prevented from coming in the east grocery store was now inside and enjoying the benefits of the merger orchestrated by Management.

You guys who make these kinds of cutting the line analogies fail to recognize that the west pilots did not join in to the east pilot's line or visa-versa. Both groups will have to get into an entirely new line based on an objective, fair, independent and fully enforceable binding arbitration agreement. It is not the east line anymore and nothing USAPA does will change that fact when a new JCBA is put out for ratification. And since USAPA has a federally-mandated responsibility to negotiate, there will be a ratification vote in the future despite all failed attempts to stop it.

Rememberwhat I said about reading comprehension? Now read my post over and try again. You have been had and dont even realize it.

 

[FL430]

Are you frigging serious? You can't debate another person with facts so you resort to bashing him for smoking? You are the mental midget of all mental midgets!

So, what facts do you have big guy?

 

[FL430]

What do you mean?

Maybe your west buddy Move2CLT can help you out. Where are you u-haul?

 

[FL430]

Another indication of his weak mind is his ridiculous comments about changing tampons. WTFO?

These clowns know that the court will soon decide and, in their (cold) hearts of hearts, know it won't be good for them. Yet they still behave like idiots. I cannot wait to see the meltdown when this is all over with. Weak minds will completely implode.

I know you are just frustrated because you know you have no control whatsoever over this entire process. You also know that you will have no control over USAPA and are distraught over the pending elections. Remember what dougie said in a crew news long ago.....just keep saying the word ACCEPTANCE over and over and it will relieve your tensions grasshopper.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Rememberwhat I said about reading comprehension? Now read my post over and try again. You have been had and dont even realize it.

Nope I understood your post perfectly - at least what you said. Now I have no idea what you meant to say, but my guess is you posted pretty much what you intended. You think the east guys have been standing in line and that the west guys have come in to the same line later than most of the east. Then when in your analogy a new line opens up, the west guys want to race from the back of the east line and move to the front of the east line instead of respectfully waiting their turn as would be the common courtesy if that were indeed the situation.

Your example of how you view west guys wanting to cut in line is completely out of phase with the reality of the situation. That's why I gave you a much more realistic and true to life example. Not surprisingly you can't acknowledge those realities so you want to speak in nebulous code that I somehow didn't comprehend what you were trying to say. You chose a very poor analogy designed to cast pejorative aspersions at the west when in reality they never stood in the east line, aren't trying to cut in front of anyone else, and had nothing to do with how the award was ordered. Truth be told, 515 east guys cut in front of every west pilot based on the NIC, but that's just the reality of letting an arbitrator decide what is best rather than doing it yourself.

It is funny how you tried to make the east pilots out as the more rational, civil and honorable group though. That truly is good for a belly laugh.

 

[BoeingBoy]

because you know they are facts

Opinions

and you cannot dispute them.

Opinion

If you are going to attack and discredit the east

Opinion

Now try and resist the urge to light up another one. If you are not already on O2 you soon will be and a nebulizer will also be in your future. Would you like me to discuss for you the internal body processes that result from nicotine and other carbon deposit injestions or is that against board rules?

Attack.

Yep, the usual...opinion - opinion - opinion claimed to be facts - attack. Nosumap would be so proud that you're carrying on the tradition.

Jim

 

[Phoenix]

Maybe your west buddy Move2CLT can help you out. Where are you u-haul?

The election already happened and he got into the top two so now he is keeping it clean for the run off.

 

[FL430]

Nope I understood your post perfectly - at least what you said. Now I have no idea what you meant to say, but my guess is you posted pretty much what you intended. You think the east guys have been standing in line and that the west guys have come in to the same line later than most of the east. Then when in your analogy a new line opens up, the west guys want to race from the back of the east line and move to the front of the east line instead of respectfully waiting their turn as would be the common courtesy if that were indeed the situation.

Your example of how you view west guys wanting to cut in line is completely out of phase with the reality of the situation. That's why I gave you a much more realistic and true to life example. Not surprisingly you can't acknowledge those realities so you want to speak in nebulous code that I somehow didn't comprehend what you were trying to say. You chose a very poor analogy designed to cast pejorative aspersions at the west when in reality they never stood in the east line, aren't trying to cut in front of anyone else, and had nothing to do with how the award was ordered. Truth be told, 515 east guys cut in front of every west pilot based on the NIC, but that's just the reality of letting an arbitrator decide what is best rather than doing it yourself.

It is funny how you tried to make the east pilots out as the more rational, civil and honorable group though. That truly is good for a belly laugh.

Calloway, I think you are by far the most intelligent west poster. Really, I do. Now a lot of other west posters are smart but they are not intelligent. With that being said you had a really good rebuttal to my post except:

One, I never said any east people or east pilots were in the line at the grocery store.

Two, where would you ever find both east and west pilots in a long line in any grocery store at the same time? Most east pilots live east and most west pilots live west. You couldnt get enough in a grocery store to even begin to form a line much less a long line as previously stated.

Your emotional response caused you to overlook the obvious and made you look, well emotional.

And by the way it was 517 not 515. They were put there because you didnt have 767s or A330s and rightfully so.

And while you are laughing think for a second about the words you ascribed to in your parting sentence. Rational, civil, and honorable. I see myself as standing up for our more junior guys that were wronged by the Nic award. These are guys that I have shared a cockpit with for over 25 years and I will continue to try and protect them. If you doubt my resolve simply look to the coming election results and then reflect back with me.

Peace

 

[FL430]

Opinions



Opinion



Opinion



Attack.

Yep, the usual...opinion - opinion - opinion claimed to be facts - attack. Nosumap would be so proud that you're carrying on the tradition.

Jim

Would you like me to post your nephews phone number and adress on here so others can ask and see for themselves which is fact or opinion?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Would you like me to post your nephews phone number and adress on here so others can ask and see for themselves which is fact or opinion?

Identity theft! I thought that might even be below your low standards...

Jim

 

[PullUp]

The election already happened and he got into the top two so now he is keeping it clean for the run off.

So 'Move2CLT'=Koontz?

 

[FL430]

Boeingboy dresses up like the great pumpkin!

Now is that statement fact, opinion, or an attack?

Your turn to answer Boeingboy. You have the attention of all.

 

[prechilill]

So 'Move2CLT'=Koontz?

Yes! How did you know?

 

[FL430]

Identity theft! I thought that might even be below your low standards...

Jim

The only thing below my low standards is you. The information is in public domain anyway. If you had half a brain you would know that. Cigarettes kill brain cells you know.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Calloway, I think you are by far the most intelligent west poster. Really, I do. Now a lot of other west posters are smart but they are not intelligent. With that being said you had a really good rebuttal to my post except:

One, I never said any east people or east pilots were in the line at the grocery store.

Two, where would you ever find both east and west pilots in a long line in any grocery store at the same time? Most east pilots live east and most west pilots live west. You couldnt get enough in a grocery store to even begin to form a line much less a long line as previously stated.

Your emotional response caused you to overlook the obvious and made you look, well emotional.

And by the way it was 517 not 515. They were put there because you didnt have 767s or A330s and rightfully so.

And while you are laughing think for a second about the words you ascribed to in your parting sentence. Rational, civil, and honorable. I see myself as standing up for our more junior guys that were wronged by the Nic award. These are guys that I have shared a cockpit with for over 25 years and I will continue to try and protect them. If you doubt my resolve simply look to the coming election results and then reflect back with me.

Peace

Well thanks.

You didn't say the east/west pilots were in line together at the grocery store but you said the west pilots remind you of people who would cut from the back of the line to the first open register at a grocery store. It was an analogy or example in life that served your purpose. Of course I never said that east & west pilots would be in the same grocery store together either. I just modified your analogy into a better and more accurate representation of the situation than the simplistic example you presented.

My response wasn't all that emotional. I'm human and emotions and rational (or irrational depending on the person) thoughts can be somewhat inseparable, but I probably spend way more time on the objective end of the continuum. Your analogy was a misrepresentation of the situation in my opinion and I simply sought to make a better one. I fail to see how that is characteristically an emotion-based response.

I'm also well aware of the fact that the top 517 WB east positions went to the top of the list. All you need is a little bit of math. The Award slotted two east pilots and then one west pilot into the ratio integration of the two lists. So, 517-2=515 or the number of positions slotted ahead of the number 1 west pilot. I was hoping you might figure that out but I'll know to be more explicit in the future.

It may be your opinion that junior east pilots were "wronged" by the NIC, but that is far from being a fact. The facts are that the top 517 slots went east; all other active pilots were integrated with a 2:1 system of east and west; and pilots on furlough were placed at the bottom of the list which is the same place the would have been if the merger did not occur. All west pilots had a drop in relative seniority status except for those at the bottom of the list. By contrast, all active east pilots had a gain in relative seniority status (at the expense of the west), except those at the bottom of the original east list who simply held on to their low seniority status. So, you can frame or attempt to justify your position against the NIC, but what it really boils down to is that you want the west pilots to suffer more so that your junior guys can receive additional gains provided by the west. Regardless, you are fighting a near-certain losing battle by trying to vacate the NIC award. Your victory is measured by a delay of implementation, not one based on the validation by the courts or by any moral principles or standards recognized by any civilization at anytime in history.