US Pilots Labor Discussion

[BoeingBoy]

Also, please define 11th hour (date) and cite your source as to exactly what was said.

Just in time to win the CofC grievance over the sale of the 170's. That's when Glass testified that (paraphrasing) "MDA was mainline all along." Of course, up until then the company treated MDA as an Express operator. The east MEC, by filing the grievance, treated MDA as an Express operator - there's no CofC grievance if MDA was part of mainline all along. The MDA pilots even supported the grievance - they didn't consider themselves "mainline all along" until the Nic award came out.

And yes, breezy, the vast majority of "real" mainline pilots didn't consider MDA as mainline until the Nic award came out either...a bunch of sheep blindly following the MEC...

Finally, there was a corporate entity for MDA. It was called Material Services, Inc (dba MidAtlantic Airways)...

Jim

 

[luvn737s]

Ok....my mistake, just trying to be fair. Disregard the, "pal" stuff, DH.

There's the ol' red pill Breeze.

Sorry, but I promise that you will not get my vote. I don't trust you Move2.

I didn't see Move2CLT on the ballot and I just voted a day ago. Don't ruin your computer monitor trying to scrawl in a write-in candidate, it's not worth it.

 

[mrbreeze]

[quote name='BoeingBoy' timestamp='1330984461' post='877519'

And yes, breezy, the vast majority of "real" mainline pilots didn't consider MDA as mainline until the Nic award came out either...a bunch of sheep blindly following the MEC...

Jim
[/quote]

Again, In your opinion....which you seem to think is above the court ruling.

Consider this.....have you ever been wrong in your opinion?

And also consider.....what was the timing in all this? Why would the MDA pilots sue if it were not prudent?

breeze

 

[CallawayGolf]

This is where you are totally wrong.....your number on that list is based on DOH, period.

breeze

Is that was happened at US prior to the merger with HP or were other methods of integrations of lists used? What about at DL/NW? Or UA/CO? Or SW/Air Tran? Could it be that DOH does not equal seniority, especially when two separate companies are merged into one?

 

[mrbreeze]

again, what was your retirement date and why do you have such a hard on for the East pilots? We all want to know.

This is very revalent to your argument and I, personally would gain understanding as to your point of view. I respected your views on the ALPA webboard, but just can't get a handle on where you are now.

breeze

 

[cactusboy53]

Getting very aquainted with the moderators, eh?

Probably a surprise to you, but I have friends out West.....old friends. Townsend and Willoughby retired a few years back, but I still have old buddies lurking around.

I know who you are and believe that all on this board should know. We don't need a "West" Cleary in charge, regardless of who wins.

breeze

Henry & Greg? or Tom & Greg? I just spoke with Greg today. He's doing well and enjoying retirement (lives about 80 miles from me). Henry (if that's who you were talking about) is also a stand up guy. A person that got the short end of the stick during the Eastern strike, and yet has a GREAT attitude.

Isn't is sad? Our community is so small that we all are friends with someone else w/i one or two degrees. We all want a better contract. We all want more money as we watch our peers getting up to $60+ an hour MORE than what we make. We all have families and loved ones. We are so akin that when someone converses with us, they are quite likely to say....."You're a pilot, aren't you?".

And yet the only thing that keeps us apart are the actions of a larger group against the smaller group, in the failed attempt to get date of hire as the basis of our merged seniority vs. a completed and agreed upon process.

HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS is lost wages and time off, NEVER to be recovered.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Again, In your opinion....which you seem to think is above the court ruling.

Which court ruling would that be? "Not ripe?" I don't disagree with that ruling, although I also understand why AOL filed the DFR suit when it did.

Consider this.....have you ever been wrong in your opinion?

Opinion? No, since opinion is just that. I do try to get the facts right unless my source for those facts is wrong. Have you got any proof that what I said about the vast majority of "real" mainline pilots was wrong?

what was the timing in all this? Why would the MDA pilots sue if it were not prudent?

I think Glass' testimony in the arbitration was in the fall of 2006 - about a year after the corporate merger and after both east and west had agreed to go to arbitration. As some easties say - "Anyone can sue for anything." Why didn't they sue when MDA was put on the US certificate? After all, that's when most easties now claim that MDA became "a pretend express but really mainline" operation. Why wait till the Nic award came out? Hoping to improve their position on that award perhaps???

Jim

 

[mrbreeze]

Is that was happened at US prior to the merger with HP or were other methods of integrations of lists used? What about at DL/NW? Or UA/CO? Or SW/Air Tran? Could it be that DOH does not equal seniority, especially when two separate companies are merged into one?

Is it also possible that merger policy, especially ALPA's, has gone through some tests and changes since the flawed NIC came out? Also, who was in control of those merger policies? A gruop of junior DOH pilots at UAL and Delta, compared to the seniority of experienced pilots that worked for TWA and USAir? And why would that happen? The idea that these old guys are washed up....fuk them?

THAT IS THE BOTTOM LINE.......GREED. PERIOD

You Mesa pukes make me sick!

breeze

 

[Piedmont1984]

Is that was happened at US prior to the merger with HP or were other methods of integrations of lists used? What about at DL/NW? Or UA/CO? Or SW/Air Tran? Could it be that DOH does not equal seniority, especially when two separate companies are merged into one?

In the mergers you mention, was longevity obliterated? Would those integrations have proceeded relatively unimpeded if longevity had been cast aside in such an unbalanced way?

DOH should be part and parcel of seniority in any merger, an integral part of the recipe, rather than an erasure mark.

The fact that we are where we are, five years after the award, demonstrates the failure of Nicolau's formula.

 

[mrbreeze]

Henry & Greg? or Tom & Greg? I just spoke with Greg today. He's doing well and enjoying retirement (lives about 80 miles from me). Henry (if that's who you were talking about) is also a stand up guy. A person that got the short end of the stick during the Eastern strike, and yet has a GREAT attitude.

Isn't is sad? Our community is so small that we all are friends with someone else w/i one or two degrees. We all want a better contract. We all want more money as we watch our peers getting up to $60+ an hour MORE than what we make. We all have families and loved ones. We are so akin that when someone converses with us, they are quite likely to say....."You're a pilot, aren't you?".

And yet the only thing that keeps us apart are the actions of a larger group against the smaller group, in the failed attempt to get date of hire as the basis of our merged seniority vs. a completed and agreed upon process.

HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS is lost wages and time off, NEVER to be recovered.

Thaks for this post. I flew with Greg years ago and lived about 5 miles from him.....great guy. Tom Townsend used to be my boss in the training department yrs ago.

It is a shame things have come to this.....

breeze

 

[mrbreeze]

Which court ruling would that be? "Not ripe?" I don't disagree with that ruling, although I also understand why AOL filed the DFR suit when it did.Not ripe? No, I am talking about the MDA lawsuit.



Opinion?
That is fuked up.....we all hav opinions, but must admit that we are sometimes wrong.



I think Glass' testimony in the arbitration was in the fall of 2006 - about a year after the corporate merger and after both east and west had agreed to go to arbitration. As some easties say - "Anyone can sue for anything." Why didn't they sue when MDA was put on the US certificate? After all, that's when most easties now claim that MDA became "a pretend express but really mainline" operation. Why wait till the Nic award came out? Hoping to improve their position on that award perhaps???

Jim

I don't believe it was Glass who finally admitted that MDA was mainline.....it was another Exec.

Regardless, as you know, things were spiriling out of control at that point. As hard as the pilots were trying to stick together, there was a lot of misinformation being put out, not only by USAir management, but by two factions at ALPA.

Bottom line was, regardless of what you wanted MDA to be, the legal definition, according to USAir management, was that MDA was, in fact, part of mainline, and NIC got it wrong on where he placed those guys in his award.

IT'S FLAWED.

breeze

 

[mrbreeze]

Getting late here in Europe, so I am signing off.

Long days and pleasent nights to you all.

breeze

 

[cactusboy53]

Thaks for this post. I flew with Greg years ago and lived about 5 miles from him.....great guy. Tom Townsend used to be my boss in the training department yrs ago.

It is a shame things have come to this.....

breeze

IMHO it verges on quite nearly criminal. Changing CBA's for the sole purpose of evading a final & binding seniority arbitration, persecution of 24 union members with RICO accusations, using all member dues to fill the courts with as much litigation humanly possilbe, countless attempts to outspend our legal defense, etc.

It didn't have to come to this. This was a concerted effort to harm the AWA pilot group at any and all costs. A small junior group of pilots took us all on a ride with a dead end. That is a crime.

 

[Move2CLT]

I don't believe it was Glass who finally admitted that MDA was mainline.....it was another Exec.

Regardless, as you know, things were spiriling out of control at that point. As hard as the pilots were trying to stick together, there was a lot of misinformation being put out, not only by USAir management, but by two factions at ALPA.

Bottom line was, regardless of what you wanted MDA to be, the legal definition, according to USAir management, was that MDA was, in fact, part of mainline, and NIC got it wrong on where he placed those guys in his award.

IT'S FLAWED.

breeze

MDA was not part of mainline. You couldn't flow up and you had to be furloughed to fly there. This was covered in the med/arb and went undisputed by the east MC.

It's nothing more than an east fantasy much like retro and LOA93 snapbacks.

 

[cleardirect]

The ALPA MEC was wrong and also, in the 11th hour, USAir management agreed that the Mid Atlantic pilots were in fact part of mainline and not furloughed. So the statement, "so it seemed" does not apply. The MDA pilots deserve their rightful spot on any combined list, according to their DOH. This is the very reason that NIC got it wrong. It was flawed from the beginning.

As far as windfall....how many times do I have to state that losing 15 yrs of seniority is wrong. In your heart, you know that, so quit trying to leapfrog in your career.

breeze

But Us Air recalculated the LOS for the MDA guys because the company does not consider them mainline.

BTW where is that MDA law suit in the court? It has been almost 2 years since anything has been said by the judge. Second question. Even if the judge says they were mainline. The MDA guys are are askin gfor money not the seniority list to be changed. How does that help you guys avoid the Nicolau?