US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Move2CLT]

Again, In your opinion....which you seem to think is above the court ruling.

Consider this.....have you ever been wrong in your opinion?

And also consider.....what was the timing in all this? Why would the MDA pilots sue if it were not prudent?

breeze

Because they're grasping at straws.

And their lawsuit is dead in the water.

 

[Move2CLT]

Getting late here in Europe, so I am signing off.

Long days and pleasent nights to you all.

breeze

Check it out breeze - I'm at 3400 +'s.

I guess everyone hates me, right?

 

[mrbreeze]

IMHO it verges on quite nearly criminal. Changing CBA's for the sole purpose of evading a final & binding seniority arbitration, persecution of 24 union members with RICO accusations, using all member dues to fill the courts with as much litigation humanly possilbe, countless attempts to outspend our legal defense, etc.

It didn't have to come to this. This was a concerted effort to harm the AWA pilot group at any and all costs. A small junior group of pilots took us all on a ride with a dead end. That is a crime.

I understand.

Please consider this:

Final and binding arbritration was challenged because the East pilots considered that the NIC was flawed from the beginning. Everything else that happened after that was an knee jerk-defensive reaction. (not to mention how ALPA had already screwed up in our prior years)

It was never about trying to steal anything from the West pilots. It became more about tryin to protect our final years and our upcoming retirements.

Honestly, I have felt betrayed by Cleary and his gang. It's sucks that he hi-jacked our new union for his own personal gains. I truely hope things move forward at this point....it's got to improve.

breeze

 

[mrbreeze]

But Us Air recalculated the LOS for the MDA guys because the company does not consider them mainline.

BTW where is that MDA law suit in the court? It has been almost 2 years since anything has been said by the judge. Second question. Even if the judge says they were mainline. The MDA guys are are askin gfor money not the seniority list to be changed. How does that help you guys avoid the Nicolau?

1-MDA lawsuit is in the same position as NIC and DOH.....held up in the courts......weak point.

2-Any admition that the MDA pilots were wronged is an indication that NIC got it wrong, whether it is monatary award, or improvement of seniority.

breeze

 

[Move2CLT]

Another reason that you shouldn't be in office, Koontz....your attitude.

Another reason you shouldn't be posting - your lack of common sense.

 

[mrbreeze]

MDA was not part of mainline. You couldn't flow up and you had to be furloughed to fly there. This was covered in the med/arb and went undisputed by the east MC.

It's nothing more than an east fantasy much like retro and LOA93 snapbacks.

LOL

surely you didn't miss the point that badly...or are you just stupid?

It had nothing to do with flow through agreements, etc. It has everything to do with MDA being operated by mainline pilots, on mainline owned aircraft, under a mainline certificate, and handled by mainline employess, not to mention being mainline ticket stock.

breeze

 

[Move2CLT]

1-MDA lawsuit is in the same position as NIC and DOH.....held up in the courts......weak point.

2-Any admition that the MDA pilots were wronged is an indication that NIC got it wrong, whether it is monatary award, or improvement of seniority.

breeze

1. The MDA lawsuit is on the verge of dismissal.

2. Completely incorrect.

 

[mrbreeze]

Check it out breeze - I'm at 3400 +'s.

I guess everyone hates me, right?

3400+????

Wow, your hand must be getting tired of patty yourself on the back that much. I also noticed that you have over 15 posts each day......must be nice to be in a position to sit on your ass that much and play on the Internet, instead of being productive for this company. I think your supervisor should check into this. We are obviously not getting our money's worth out of you. And now you want an even cushier position, VP at USAPA......you are worse than Cleary in the area of being paid to do nothing.

breeze

 

[Move2CLT]

LOL

surely you didn't miss the point that badly...or are you just stupid?

It had nothing to do with flow through agreements, etc. It has everything to do with MDA being operated by mainline pilots, on mainline owned aircraft, under a mainline certificate, and handled by mainline employess, not to mention being mainline tick stock.

breeze

Man youre pathetic. I guess when your back is up against a wall...

Mainline Pilot's were furloughed. They had to be to take a position at MDA. Your east MC agreed.

The certificate was a band aid approach the FAA made the company use to get the aircraft flying.

Fantasize all you want but MDA was not mainline. Nic understood that and so did the neutrals and the company.

 

[mrbreeze]

1. The MDA lawsuit is on the verge of dismissal.

2. Completely incorrect.

According to who.....you commander Koontz?

no political agenda there, eh?

breeze

 

[CallawayGolf]

Is it also possible that merger policy, especially ALPA's, has gone through some tests and changes since the flawed NIC came out? Also, who was in control of those merger policies? A gruop of junior DOH pilots at UAL and Delta, compared to the seniority of experienced pilots that worked for TWA and USAir? And why would that happen? The idea that these old guys are washed up....fuk them?

THAT IS THE BOTTOM LINE.......GREED. PERIOD

You Mesa pukes make me sick!

breeze

Always an excuse and never acceptance of fact or taking responsibility for being wrong. Seniority does not equal DOH. You wouldn't be so prone to using profanity and hurling insults if you could just accept the simple fact that 17 years didn't earn you anything morales than six months earned an West pilot. Two different companies and two different DOHs to hold the exact same status.

What's Mesa got to do with anything and why do you suppose I have any relationship - past, present or future - with that organization?

 

[mrbreeze]

Man youre pathetic. I guess when your back is up against a wall...

Mainline Pilot's were furloughed. They had to be to take a position at MDA. Your east MC agreed.

The certificate was a band aid approach the FAA made the company use to get the aircraft flying.

Fantasize all you want but MDA was not mainline. Nic understood that and so did the neutrals and the company.

Oh, sorry, I screwed it up. After all..... you were part of it, and I wasn't.

Gimme a break! You don't have a clue, do you? YOU WERE NOT THERE, DH!!!! Another part of your fantasy to leap frog in seniority, regardless of the facts.

You are certainly not helping your election outcome with this weak argument.

breeze

 

[CallawayGolf]

In the mergers you mention, was longevity obliterated? Would those integrations have proceeded relatively unimpeded if longevity had been cast aside in such an unbalanced way?

DOH should be part and parcel of seniority in any merger, an integral part of the recipe, rather than an erasure mark.

The fact that we are where we are, five years after the award, demonstrates the failure of Nicolau's formula.

No, it shows there is no limit to the antics some will pull to avoid accepting reality and responsibility for their own actions. Reasonable people would have accepted the NIC five years ago and got on with their lives. Even more reasonable people would never let a dispute go to binding arbitration in the first place.

 

[crazystnic]

Always an excuse and never acceptance of fact or taking responsibility for being wrong. Seniority does not equal DOH. You wouldn't be so prone to using profanity and hurling insults if you could just accept the simple fact that 17 years didn't earn you anything morales than six months earned an West pilot. Two different companies and two different DOHs to hold the exact same status.

What's Mesa got to do with anything and why do you suppose I have any relationship - past, present or future - with that organization?

Callaway, agree with you except for Attrition.
should of been factored into the equation...

NIC dropped the ball even the neutral thought so on this issue

 

[mrbreeze]

Always an excuse and never acceptance of fact or taking responsibility for being wrong. Seniority does not equal DOH. You wouldn't be so prone to using profanity and hurling insults if you could just accept the simple fact that 17 years didn't earn you anything morales than six months earned an West pilot. Two different companies and two different DOHs to hold the exact same status.

What's Mesa got to do with anything and why do you suppose I have any relationship - past, present or future - with that organization?

I stand behind my statement.
breeze