US Pilots Labor Discussion

[fifidriver]

He's just very arrogant considering his character. Industry wanna be mogul lmao, he's just Orenstein's big brother. DAL laughed him off as well as UAL, we will see how AMR handles him 😉

I'm not qualified to speak as to his industry standing. Obviously, from our perspective his handling of this thing is a travesty. However, he talked a lot of people out of a lot of money to underwrite this debacle. When you say, "DAL laughed him off as well as UAL", I'm not sure if that is as much a commentary on him or the embedded culture of the corporate entity.

 

[No Land Green]

I'm not qualified to speak as to his industry standing. Obviously, from our perspective his handling of this thing is a travesty. However, he talked a lot of people out of a lot of money to underwrite this debacle. When "DAL laughed him off as well as UAL", I'm not sure if that is as much a commentary on him or the embedded culture of the corporate entity.

Bruce Lakefield was the money guy who underwrote "this debacle". We have seen numerous "savior's" on the East side over the last couple of decades. They all just turned out to be real estate flippers who never fully developed the potential of the airline. Here we sit again with a CEO who can't just grow the airline from within and create in house jobs. It's just easier to outsource to other carriers and keep the divide and conquer game going on here.

 

[fifidriver]

Bruce Lakefield was the money guy who underwrote "this debacle". We have seen numerous "savior's" on the East side over the last couple of decades. They all just turned out to be real estate flippers who never fully developed the potential of the airline. Here we sit again with a CEO who can't just grow the airline from within and create in house jobs. It's just easier to outsource to other carriers and keep the divide and conquer game going on here.

You're right about that last. That has always been Doogie's "modus operandi", squeezing labor. But there was no emerging as a stand alone. They wanted someone new to drive the "Titanic".

Apologies to Captain Smith...

 

[No Land Green]

You're right about that last. That has always been Doogie's "modus operandi", squeezing labor. But there was no emerging as a stand alone. They wanted someone new to drive the "Titanic".

Apologies to Captain Smith...

True "no stand alone" but for for either side. No point here in rehashing either sides failed history, BWI, PIT, CMH, LAS, etc...

In regards' to Captain Smith, he was recently accused of "drinking on the job" the night of the iceberg collision recently in the media. I guess we now have something in common with The "Titanic" Skipper's Smith and Parker LOL!!!!

Have a nice day there Fifi, I'm off to work.

NLG

 

[fifidriver]

True "no stand alone" but for for either side. No point here in rehashing either sides failed history, BWI, PIT, CMH, LAS, etc...

In regards' to Captain Smith, he was recently accused of "drinking on the job" the night of the iceberg collision recently in the media. I guess we now have something in common with The "Titanic" Skipper's Smith and Parker LOL!!!!

Have a nice day there Fifi, I'm off to work.

NLG

My apologies. "Perhaps I have underestimated you, young Skywalker..." I thought the reference was a bit obscure for the audience. Have fun. Keep the greasy side down!

 

[Piedmont1984]

Sorry, they were equally junior. Why is that so hard to understand or accept?

If they were equally junior then they should have the exact same seniority number on the combined list. But that, of course, is impossible as well as not being the case. One was placed ahead of the other. The criteria for doing so should have included years of service, but was not. Hence our current predicament.

Why is that so hard to understand?

 

[luvn737s]

Possibly because Doogie in his infinite wisdom did not change the name of the "cesspool" on the side of the airplanes. It seems to them that they still work for "US AIR". Incidentally, one of the public statments from our fearless leader at the time of the "reverse aquisition", was that "we believe that we can rehabilitate a brand with a poor reputation(AA), more easily than we can introduce a new brand (HP)".

Well, he got that one wrong now didn't he? However, it's no small feat to gamble that a handful of angry pilots could persuade 2/3 of the entire pilot group to hand you a 25% hedge against increased wages for 8+ years without even having to ask for it!

Perhaps they should replace the Heritage Circle by the L1 door with "Fueled by FUD".

Better yet, elect Ferguson/Koontz/Holmes and send the boogeymen packing and rebuild the union.

 

[jetjok1]

Wasn't my choice to be associated with you scumbags. Piss off.

Nor us with you. People who have to refer to name calling to "strut their stuff" and cuss on top of that.........Well, I have zero respect for.

 

[traderjake]

The criteria for doing so should have included years of service, but was not.

Why is that so hard to understand?

No it should not.

The job you hold is more important than how long it took you to get it.

Why is that so hard to understand?

 

[luvn737s]

If they were equally junior then they should have the exact same seniority number on the combined list. But that, of course, is impossible as well as not being the case. One was placed ahead of the other. The criteria for doing so should have included years of service, but was not. Hence our current predicament.

Why is that so hard to understand?

I suppose because that would be a Longevity Integration, not a Seniority Integration. The bottom active pilots are next to each other. The senior HP pilots were the ones who lost out, but they seem willing to accept Nicolau's methodology.

If USAPA wants to fight the "Nicolau Is Flawed" fight, then they should assemble the evidence and fight that in court separately. Addington I was about the right or restriction of a union to pick sides in a seniority integration and disenfranchise one group over another. It's not about the validity of Nicolau. But they (USAPA) continue to drag this out as though it were just to perpetuate the only thing they have to offer - DELAY! Addington II will be about the merits of Addington I (which were never disputed) PLUS the complicit involvement of USAirways.

 

[Piedmont1984]

I suppose because that would be a Longevity Integration, not a Seniority Integration. The bottom active pilots are next to each other. The senior HP pilots were the ones who lost out, but they seem willing to accept Nicolau's methodology.

If USAPA wants to fight the "Nicolau Is Flawed" fight, then they should assemble the evidence and fight that in court separately. Addington I was about the right or restriction of a union to pick sides in a seniority integration and disenfranchise one group over another. It's not about the validity of Nicolau. But they (USAPA) continue to drag this out as though it were just to perpetuate the only thing they have to offer - DELAY! Addington II will be about the merits of Addington I (which were never disputed) PLUS the complicit involvement of USAirways.

Seniority among union members, whether in-house or as a result of mergers, has historically and traditionally been longevity based. The one glaring exception has been airline pilots. Their excursion off the proven path has, by coincidence, not cost any legacy pilot group an excessive amount of seniority, such as in the case of DAL/NWA and UAL/CAL - until the fiasco here and at TWA. Which is why ALPA, the architect of a merger policy which caused more harm than not, has once again embraced and included longevity in its merger language.

I interpreted your orirginal question about 'hard to understand' as being philosophical - not legal. So I responded in that way.

I have no wish to delay. I want an unambiguous judgement rendered by the courts which makes appeal futile and precludes the possibility of a future DFR from either the west or the east. And I think THAT is the shortest path to ending all this.

 

[Piedmont1984]

No it should not.

The job you hold is more important than how long it took you to get it.

Why is that so hard to understand?

Why don't you substitute the word 'has' for 'should' as in - longevity HAS been included in the merger of virtually all trades and all mergers - except for us dumb ass pilots.

Other mergers go without a hitch, including other labor groups on this property.

The job you hold should depend to some extent on how long it took to get it - relative to the other guy.

 

[traderjake]

We're not plumbers or longshoremen.

It's hasn't been used for pilots for two decades.

There's a reason why it's not used anymore.

 

[Piedmont1984]

That's because we're not plumbers or longshoremen.

It's hasn't been used for pilots for two decades.

Yeah, they have it better and do it smarter.

 

[traderjake]

No, they're not smarter.

Their jobs are protected by organized crime and paid off politicians.