US Pilots Labor Discussion

[GuntherA320]

Pain means nothing when the patient is braindead.

I am shocked Dan that between your vote and Chip's vote that Ferguson didn't carry the day.

 

[traderjake]

I am shocked Dan that between your vote and Chip's vote that Ferguson didn't carry the day.

You forgot luvthe9.

Enjoy another couple of years of LOA 93.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Oh well, what are you gonna do? I had higher hopes, but that's all they were, hopes. This is not exactly unexpected. Nothing to do now but carry on. Hummel is better than Cleary in any case.

 

[luvn737s]

The results of the votes themselves are not surprising, but the ability for the vocal minority of AFO's to pursuade so many that the boogey man is still real and that voting to give the puppeteers the reins of USAPA again certainly is. So many were duped into believing that a vote for Ferguson and the Nic were one and the same, when what they voted against really was reconciliation and unity.

They have cast a vote for disunity and it will be honored. Daily.

 

[fatherabraham]

Unlike they did with Cleary.

There were issues for sure!
ALL need to be represented in representive fashion w/o the friggin back door politics .

FA

 

[luvn737s]

Oh well, what are you gonna do? I had higher hopes, but that's all they were, hopes. This is not exactly unexpected. Nothing to do now but carry on. Hummel is better than Cleary in any case.

Wake up! Hummel didn't win, his handlers did. And they're no less slimy than Cleary.

If you liked the autopilot Otto in 'Airplane', you'll love Hummel.

 

[Beancounter]

Is it really any wonder, that US pilots are the lowest paid in the industry?

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Wake up! Hummel didn't win, his handlers did. And they're no less slimy than Cleary.

If you liked the autopilot Otto in 'Airplane', you'll love Hummel.

Yes, I've seen the case made for that. We shall see.

 

[fatherabraham]

The results of the votes themselves are not surprising, but the ability for the vocal minority of AFO's to pursuade so many that the boogey man is still real and that voting to give the puppeteers the reins of USAPA again certainly is.

They have cast a vote for disunity and it will be honored. Daily.

I'm a Nobama type fella, but damn sure am unified as an American. Hummel was my 2nd choice for many reasons of 3. I will continue to make our union the best it can be by my participation.......duh to any other strat. So the folk whose candidate did not win has same choices as always. The minority blame game is lame/disingenuous . There are no victims , only some unhappy lottery winners who can't claim their prize and looking for a Dfr sympathetic liberal judge to ease the pain.

As to above, common sense dictates that no AFO group can do as you claim for this many years!
If you pull your head out, you may see the obvious.

FA

 

[boeingtamer]

3 more years, 3 more years!!!!!!

Congratulation 3 more years of nothing. 500 east pilots can count on retiring on LOA 93 wages and benefits.

Despite his great video work, I think Fergie underestimated the resolve of the East pilots... we're not willing to sacrifice principle for a bigger paycheck. The message is clear. West's pyrrhic "victory" with the NiC will be denied through contract ratification votes,even with a pro-NIC court ruling, until the East majority is lost. Only retirements will do that... better hope the retirement age is not raised (or eliminated) or you may be waiting a really long time. Most of us are in the declining expense years (kids done with college, empty nesters, homes paid off, used to our budgets). We can live on these wages well into the future.

Time for the West to come to the table and COMPROMISE. And none of this... "Boo-hoo who would represent us?" stuff. Your LEC is duly elected by your pilots and could bargain with the USAPA at large to find some solution. Instead you continue to "hold out" for a victory that it will take many years to financially recover when your beloved NIC is, if ever, adopted.

If I am typical, I told my wife years ago that our pay would probably not increase during the remainder of my career. I explained that although I only lost about 150 numbers with the NIC that I had to support the Jr. Captains and F/O's I fly with that were really screwed. They are my friends...I owe that to them. I explained if it meant a sacrifice, so be it. She said she was proud of me!

A solution is possible but I don't expect it. Like a nasty divorce fight, the lawyers are the only winners. But don't say that it is impossible...that's a cop out.

 

[fatherabraham]

If I am typical, I told my wife years ago that our pay would probably not increase during the remainder of my career. I explained that although I only lost about 150 numbers with the NIC that I had to support the Jr. Captains and F/O's I fly with that were really screwed. They are my friends...I owe that to them. I explained if it meant a sacrifice, so be it. She said she was proud of me!

A solution is possible but I don't expect it. Like a nasty divorce fight, the lawyers are the only winners. But don't say that it is impossible...that's a cop out.

Tamer,

Thank You as I am one of those f/o's you mention!
I too am extremely proud of folk like you and see it as the type of union mentality we all should have. I and you alike I believe would fight equally as hard if we saw a Nic type fiasco against our newer brethren of the awa FO group.

FA

 

[cleardirect]

There were issues for sure!
ALL need to be represented in representive fashion w/o the friggin back door politics .

FA

I agree but do you expect that to change with Hummel and Bradford?

It will now be the other side shooting at the castle. Now we will hear the screams of "the president can't do that" now that their guy is not the president anymore. I fully expect charges, counter charges, appeals and more law suits.

Come on say it with me. 3 more years, 3 more years!!!!!

 

[fodase]

Despite his great video work, I think Fergie underestimated the resolve of the East pilots... we're not willing to sacrifice principle for a bigger paycheck. The message is clear. West's pyrrhic "victory" with the NiC will be denied through contract ratification votes,even with a pro-NIC court ruling, until the East majority is lost. Only retirements will do that... better hope the retirement age is not raised (or eliminated) or you may be waiting a really long time. Most of us are in the declining expense years (kids done with college, empty nesters, homes paid off, used to our budgets). We can live on these wages well into the future.

Time for the West to come to the table and COMPROMISE. And none of this... "Boo-hoo who would represent us?" stuff. Your LEC is duly elected by your pilots and could bargain with the USAPA at large to find some solution. Instead you continue to "hold out" for a victory that it will take many years to financially recover when your beloved NIC is, if ever, adopted.

If I am typical, I told my wife years ago that our pay would probably not increase during the remainder of my career. I explained that although I only lost about 150 numbers with the NIC that I had to support the Jr. Captains and F/O's I fly with that were really screwed. They are my friends...I owe that to them. I explained if it meant a sacrifice, so be it. She said she was proud of me!

A solution is possible but I don't expect it. Like a nasty divorce fight, the lawyers are the only winners. But don't say that it is impossible...that's a cop out.

The solution is the Nic. This vote proves what we have always known, separate ops and west fleet minimums will do till we merge

 

[cleardirect]

Tamer,

Thank You as I am one of those f/o's you mention!
I too am extremely proud of folk like you and see it as the type of union mentality we all should have. I and you alike I believe would fight equally as hard if we saw a Nic type fiasco against our newer brethren of the awa FO group.

FA

Seriously? You are trying to force on the west a seniority fiasco with DOH far worse than the Nicolau is on the east. Don't play that game.

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

....., until the East majority is lost.

The east will always have the majority, if they want it.

Think it through, as pilots retire on the east, they are replaced with new hires, two separately sustained airlines, east and west.

Because of the attrition on the east, new hires on the east will be accelerated compared to their compatriots on the west and will transition to international/left seat while the west stagnates.

Now, consider a vote on a merged contract that includes the NIC. One has east FOs and east junior CAs rapidly progressing who have to consider a vote. Vote for and be displaced to mid or junior right seat with a halt in progression or vote NO and the good times roll. Do the math.

Oh, and the east getting 3% raises each year.

Not obvious, but a consideration.

Perhaps the west should look down the road and see their worthless lottery ticket for what it is.

The west reminds me more and more of what "cactus" means in Australia. Useless and broken down.