US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nycbusdriver]

and speaking of quiting...what happened to all those east pilots that were going to quit once the usapa scabs lost the LOA93 grievence?

Please show dates and quotes? Everything here is archived. I've never seen anyone say that.

 

[Freighterguynow]

That was my thought , industry LEADING ?

It's a shame Ferg conned the West ranks with his "angry fo" which they bought hook line and sinker.

2145 votes against / close to 90% participation? Hopefully the rest of that group "gets it" because these don't .

 

[Phoenix]

I'm a Nobama type fella, but damn sure am unified as an American. Hummel was my 2nd choice for many reasons of 3. I will continue to make our union the best it can be by my participation.......duh to any other strat. So the folk whose candidate did not win has same choices as always. The minority blame game is lame/disingenuous . There are no victims , only some unhappy lottery winners who can't claim their prize and looking for a Dfr sympathetic liberal judge to ease the pain.

As to above, common sense dictates that no AFO group can do as you claim for this many years!
If you pull your head out, you may see the obvious.

FA

His silly belief that a minority AFO club can control the outcome in opposition to the majority is his way of keeping hope that the minority can impose the Nic.

 

[Res Judicata]

His silly belief that a minority AFO club can control the outcome in opposition to the majority is his way of keeping hope that the minority can impose the Nic.

The "minority" will impose the nic. Via the Federal Court system.

 

[Phoenix]

The Transition Agreement is binding on USAPA "both under ordinary principles of contract law and under the status quo provisions of the RLA" and the TA requires the Nicolau Award to be implemented.

If you would be accurate I could consider overlooking how you eagerly slurp management and every opponent of the pilots you work alongside.

At most the TA could be construed to currently require the Nic to be included in a CBA ratification vote (not implimented as you claim) if you were to ignore everything the 9th wrote.

 

[Phoenix]

Actually, a main sequence star only burns through about 10% of its available hydrogen when it begins the Red Giant phase then it stops fusing hydrogen into helium and its core contracts and starts fusing helium into carbon and other heavier elements.

But hey, since you have no clue about simple things like seniority integrations, union DFR responsibilities, and arbitrations, I would have never expected you to have any idea of the workings of stellar physics.

I knew it! Nic4us is the same poster as CallowayGolf.

 

[boeingtamer]

1. You most ceretainly are willing to sacrifice principle. Otherwise, you would have an ounce of integrity and drop the scab mentality of stealing from the West.

The East system has been growing while the West continues to shrink... who is stealing from who? There are a lot more Westies flying former East segments than vice versa.

2. I got your compromise right here.......the Nic, unmodified.

Enjoy it in 5 years...if ever. Continue to hold out if it makes you feel better...it's called masochism...enjoy

3. You did not lose 150 numbers with the Nic. But the 150 West pilots that are rightfully ahead of you did loses at a minimum 517 numbers when your job was saved during the AWA aquisition of your bankrupt company that could no longer make your payroll.

Well, when you move down on a seniority list that's how pilots usually say it.... say it any way you want. Actually I gained in overall relative position on the entire seniority list. I still prefer to stay where i am and give my junior friends the opportunity for a big pay raise...as they upgrade,

4. You are going to soil yourself when Silver rules.....not because of what Silver says, but because of what AOL is going to say in reply. Perhaps you can join 767one in retirement by that time.

Not to worry, most of us in the East are potty trained...and I probably will be enjoying retirement by the time you see the first benefit of NIC... if your high blood pressure doesn't ground you before then. The good news is that we enjoyed very good wages by industry standards most of our careers. In todays dollars my 132 dollars an hour as a junior Capt in 1987 is equvilent over $250/hr. Paid off my house in 5 years. Really hard to complain. I am fighting for my buddies stuck in the right seat all these years...they deserve a chance to upgrade to a pay increase even if I am stuck where I am until I retire.

 

[Phoenix]

The "minority" will impose the nic. Via the Federal Court system.

I don't doubt that YOU believe "the Federal Court System" will contradict the 9th, but it appears you also believe that the FCS will eliminate any ratification vote. Oh well, everyone should have a dream.

 

[Res Judicata]

At most the TA could be construed to currently require the Nic to be included in a CBA ratification vote (not implimented as you claim) if you were to ignore everything the 9th wrote.

You better call Robert Siegal and let him know he's wrong about the Nic. and RLA then. Maybe he'll have enough time to edit the next printing of the RLA Text book he authored.

 

[Res Judicata]

I don't doubt that YOU believe "the Federal Court System" will contradict the 9th, but it appears you also believe that the FCS will eliminate any ratification vote. Oh well, everyone should have a dream.

I won't waste my time pointing out to you the apples and oranges you're referring to here. If I've learned anything about you guys is that you're absolutely beyond any form of help.

 

[Phoenix]

I won't waste my time pointing out to you the apples and oranges you're referring to here. If I've learned anything about you guys is that you're absolutely beyond any form of help.

I'll help you out. Indeed there are apples and oranges here.. 1) The union's right to negotiate a contract and 2) the membership's right to vote on the company proposal. To get the Nic implemented you are hoping that the FCS will give you both of those apples and oranges.

 

[Claxon]

The "minority" will impose the nic. Via the Federal Court system.

And the appeals court that clocked you the first time, will do it again. What makes you sure history will not repeat itself? The minority is in the dark on legal issues again. You won't impose anything the eastern group doesn't want and can out vote you. Just like they did yesterday.

 

[Claxon]

The East system has been growing while the West continues to shrink... who is stealing from who? There are a lot more Westies flying former East segments than vice versa.



Enjoy it in 5 years...if ever. Continue to hold out if it makes you feel better...it's called masochism...enjoy



Well, when you move down on a seniority list that's how pilots usually say it.... say it any way you want. Actually I gained in overall relative position on the entire seniority list. I still prefer to stay where i am and give my junior friends the opportunity for a big pay raise...as they upgrade,



Not to worry, most of us in the East are potty trained...and I probably will be enjoying retirement by the time you see the first benefit of NIC... if your high blood pressure doesn't ground you before then. The good news is that we enjoyed very good wages by industry standards most of our careers. In todays dollars my 132 dollars an hour as a junior Capt in 1987 is equvilent over $250/hr. Paid off my house in 5 years. Really hard to complain. I am fighting for my buddies stuck in the right seat all these years...they deserve a chance to upgrade to a pay increase even if I am stuck where I am until I retire.

Exactly, the western malcontents made squat for years and years. Nobody wanted anything to do with them. Still the case.

 

[Barrister]

te name='CallawayGolf' timestamp='1332449104' post='882278']
Looks kind of similar to the NIC on slotting the SLI. Roughly 2/3 are east and 1/3 are west. Now everyone can turn their attentions back to judge Silver's courtroom where the real decisions will be made. Oh, but what does this mean for $eham's chances to get a few million more out of the USAPA treasury?
[/quote]

Dude ya still gotta get by the 9th and then ya gotta have a 51% vote....what will it take to get that 1000 extra votes......!!!
Remember that rocking chair I told you to buy 2 years ago......still gonna need it for 2-4 more years.

Please pay attention IT AIN'T THE ANGRY FO club giving you these numbers!!

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[Move2CLT]

Despite his great video work, I think Fergie underestimated the resolve of the East pilots... we're not willing to sacrifice principle for a bigger paycheck. The message is clear. West's pyrrhic "victory" with the NiC will be denied through contract ratification votes,even with a pro-NIC court ruling, until the East majority is lost. Only retirements will do that... better hope the retirement age is not raised (or eliminated) or you may be waiting a really long time. Most of us are in the declining expense years (kids done with college, empty nesters, homes paid off, used to our budgets). We can live on these wages well into the future.

Time for the West to come to the table and COMPROMISE. And none of this... "Boo-hoo who would represent us?" stuff. Your LEC is duly elected by your pilots and could bargain with the USAPA at large to find some solution. Instead you continue to "hold out" for a victory that it will take many years to financially recover when your beloved NIC is, if ever, adopted.

If I am typical, I told my wife years ago that our pay would probably not increase during the remainder of my career. I explained that although I only lost about 150 numbers with the NIC that I had to support the Jr. Captains and F/O's I fly with that were really screwed. They are my friends...I owe that to them. I explained if it meant a sacrifice, so be it. She said she was proud of me!

A solution is possible but I don't expect it. Like a nasty divorce fight, the lawyers are the only winners. But don't say that it is impossible...that's a cop out.

LEC? What are you talking about?