US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Move2CLT]

Sigh! How about simply: "do us all a favor and don't whine" ?

Just give it time....there's little doubt that, soon, when "the entire world" eventually does recognize that the ultimate paradigm of all things ethical exists in otherwise unremarkable Tempe, nay...not just that, but also that the specific location of the human race's most evolved entities, those who've surpassed any/all previously even imagined levels of intellectual and spiritual perfection, is in fact the very same...well....Just rest easy knowing that you will then, most certainly, be called forth to begin your undoubted redemption of all humanity.....

So when is it supposed to happen for you easties?

 

[Move2CLT]

Found an interesting post on another board. With new litigation being filed regarding the MDA arbitration, the tally looks like this:

Nicolau
Kasher
Wallin


Oh and BTW there's a list for Federal Judges too:

Reudinger (sp?) (RICO)
Wake (Addington)
Conrad (Safety Campaign)
Allyne (Status Quo Violation)


So, apparently, everyone misunderstands the east except for the east.

I called a friend on the east and told him about the new lawsuit. First question out of his mouth was "do we even have a merger fund?" He was concerned because USAPA is spending all this money on litigation instead of building a war chest.

After that, all he could do was laugh. He was a USAPA supporter. Now, he's just embarrassed.

 

[Phoenix]

Wait!!!! Are you saying that it is wrong to change the rule or not live up to your agreements?

Imagine the shock on my face that an east pilot would complain when someone does not abide by their agreements!

Do any of you east pilots own a calculator or understand anything about money? You are saying that the pilot group gave up $9 billion. If there were 5000 pilots and all of you have 20 left to work that is $90,000 per year that you would need to make back just to break even. Did you and do you really think that you were going to get a return on your "investment"? At $90,000 per year you would have been better off letting Us Airways go out of business and find another job. You are never going to recover that money and ever year that you delay because you fail to live up to the Nicolau is another year that you will not recover your "investment".

But do us all a favor and don't whine about someone not honoring their deals.

Your hipocracy is overshadowed by your greed. Your willingness to excuse ALPA for their refusal to take resposability for their agreements (and yours) is simply a matter of greed, a dark desire to willingly get more at the expense of others. Pilots defending ALPA and desperate to work with the company at every turn to take what isn't theirs, at the expense of their fellow workers... Its no wonder many of you are ridiculing the FAs for standing up to management.

 

[Move2CLT]

Your hipocracy is overshadowed by your greed. Your willingness to excuse ALPA for their refusal to take resposability for their agreements (and yours) is simply a matter of greed, a dark desire to willingly get more at the expense of others. Pilots defending ALPA and desperate to work with the company at every turn to take what isn't theirs, at the expense of their fellow workers... Its no wonder many of you are ridiculing the FAs for standing up to management.

What a joke - an east pilot admonishing other about greed.

What about living up to your agreements PHX? Integrity? And you guys define greed. You try to salvage your miserable career and cash in on investments that failed years ago off the west pilot.

And look at how your union is run and how pathetic its been since its inception.

No wonder you guys are where you're at. You deserve it because you did it to yourselves.

 

[AAviator]

I must be missing something here. While I honestly wish the folks at AA the best; is it not the case that American has already announced 400 pilots to be furloughed? Where then, is any source for such conceited glee as to how seemingly "well" things are going?

"Sea sponge?" Well....if the sea floor fits/etc.

400 announced, and aren't happening. We're short pilots in a big way. Deliveries are/will be happening when productivity kicks in and word from manning is furloughs "unlikely".

 

[cleardirect]

Your hipocracy is overshadowed by your greed. Your willingness to excuse ALPA for their refusal to take resposability for their agreements (and yours) is simply a matter of greed, a dark desire to willingly get more at the expense of others. Pilots defending ALPA and desperate to work with the company at every turn to take what isn't theirs, at the expense of their fellow workers... Its no wonder many of you are ridiculing the FAs for standing up to management.

I am not excusing anyone. I am pointing out the hypocrisy of the east not living up to your agreement then complaining when someone else doesn't.

BTW he was complaining about the company changing the rules not ALPA. Try not to let your hate get in the way.

I don't normally quote scripture but this seemed to fit the situation here.

Matthew 7:3

Contemporary English Version (CEV)
3You can see the speck in your friend's eye, but you don't notice the log in your own eye.

How about you remove the log (Nicolau) and your refusal to play by the rules before you complain about the company refusing to play by the rules.

 

[cleardirect]

You know you east guys just wear me out. Do rules and arbitration mean nothing to you guys? Once again usapa losses an arbitration and it must be someone else's fault. so here we go again east pilots blaming someone for your failures. Will this be usapa method from now on. Lose arbitration scream bias? Another federal law suit. Throw it on the pile of growing law suits. Hey boys it's just money. Your money but just money.

Whereas the BPR has been briefed by the Grievance Committee and USAPA Attorney's that there were glaring Procedural errors along with unreasonable and unfair procedural restrictions placed upon the Union during the arbitration by Arbitrator Wallin, and

Whereas the only remedy potentially correcting these errors is a filing in Federal Court for relief, and

Whereas the BPR has been briefed that the work will be done by in house Counsel at minimal cost to USAPA,

Therefore be it resolved that the USAPA BPR authorizes the Grievance Committee and Staff Attorneys to file for relief in Federal Court.

I am sure the federal court system fully understands usapa now. In 4 years how many federal law suit has usapa been involved with? Seems usapa and the east can't get along with anyone.

 

[traderjake]

nay...not just that, but also that the specific location of the human race's most evolved entities, those who've surpassed any/all previously even imagined levels of intellectual and spiritual perfection, is in fact the very same...well....Just rest easy knowing that you will then, most certainly, be called forth to begin your undoubted redemption of all humanity.....

Is this USAPA's legal argument for abrogating the Nicolau Award?

 

[cleardirect]

Is this USAPA's legal argument for abrogating the Nicolau Award?

I think he implied that I am the second coming of Jesus.

Never thought of myself that way just a little smarter than the average bear. But maybe to an east pilots that appears supernatural.

 

[mrbreeze]

Never thought of myself that way just a little smarter than the average bear. But maybe to an east pilots that appears supernatural.

Supernatural......no, but arrogance comes to mind.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

You know you east guys just wear me out. Do rules and arbitration mean nothing to you guys? Once again usapa losses an arbitration and it must be someone else's fault. so here we go again east pilots blaming someone for your failures. Will this be usapa method from now on. Lose arbitration scream bias? Another federal law suit. Throw it on the pile of growing law suits. Hey boys it's just money. Your money but just money.



I am sure the federal court system fully understands usapa now. In 4 years how many federal law suit has usapa been involved with? Seems usapa and the east can't get along with anyone.

USAPA is just like a giant boulder full of stupid, randomly rolling along, destroying things, and never actually going anywhere.

What part of Binding Arbitration do they not get? The Binding part, or the Arbitration part?

 

[cleardirect]

USAPA is just like a giant boulder full of stupid, randomly rolling along, destroying things, and never actually going anywhere.

What part of Binding Arbitration do they not get? The Binding part, or the Arbitration part?

From A/M policy.

The decision of the arbitrator shall be final and binding on the parties.

From ALPA merger policy.

b. The Award of the Arbitration Board shall be final and binding on all parties to the arbitration and shall be defended by ALPA.

Just in case you forgot who the parties to the arbitration were. Notice it does not say ALPA or just the merger committee members. It says the pilots.

In the Matter of the Seniority Integration of
The Pilots of US Airways, Inc.
and
The Pilots of America West Airlines, Inc.

From the Frontier court case.

The unions representing the pilots of the six airlines formed merger committees to
negotiate an agreement with RAH to resolve the issue of seniority integration in accordance with
sections 3 and 13 of the labor protective provisions enacted by the McCaskill-Bond Amendment
and provided in the collective bargaining agreements. Those negotiations resulted in an
agreement, effective November 3, 2009, entitled Section 13(B) Dispute Resolution Agreement
(Agreement). The parties agreed to arbitration and Section V(g) of the Agreement provides:


The award of the arbitrator shall be stated in writing and shall be final and binding
on the parties to the Agreement and on the pilots employed by RAH and its affiliates.
The award shall include the date on which the seniority integration will become
effective, which date shall not be before the [National Mediation Board] issues its
ruling on whether the RAH affiliates comprise a single transportation system and
certifies the Organization, if any, that is the duly designated representative of the
pilot craft or class on that transportation system.

What do all of these different policies have in common?

 

[Move2CLT]

Wow, this guy sounds like a real winner. Anyone want to tell him what's been going on lately? Catch him up a little?

Philadelphia Pilots -

As a candidate for PHL Vice Chairman, please allow me to take a moment to introduce myself and my motivations for running for this important position.

My name is Paul Music. I am currently a PHL based A330 F/O with 26 years seniority and reside north of PBI. Like the majority of you, I too have flown as both block holder and reserve in both seats in most every narrow body aircraft as well as the right seat of both widebody aircraft. Prior to USAir, I served over 10 years in the United States Air Force, and it brings me great pride to say that I now have three children who are currently flying as Combat Veterans in the Air Force as well.

My primary purpose for stepping up to run for office is to do all I can to prevent any further erosion of our careers. Right now, the BPR is in disarray with pilots pulling in all directions. I am committed to working with my fellow BPR members to build consensus and do what's right for this pilot group.

My priorities include:

Elimination of the Nicolau list which I consider a fight ‘to the death’
No less than an ‘Industry Standard’ contract to recognize ‘all’ seniority groups
Continued support for the prior MDA and J4J pilots and to recognize their sacrifice

I consider our pilot group to be ‘under siege’ and I consider the elimination of the Nicolau list the MOST important issue on the agenda. I have pledged to fight ‘to the death’ to insure it never sees light of day. I can no longer ‘hope’ that my reps represent me and will remain firm on my strict Date Of Hire Stance as well as insure we do not lose any other valuable items such as Scope or the Change of Control provisions in our contract.

I will be writing to you again soon with a more detailed account of my plan for serving our pilots, In the meantime, if you value these issues and recognize their significance as I do, then I ask for your support in this election by casting your vote for me TODAY: Paul D. Music for PHL Vice Chairman



Respectfully,

Paul D. Music

 

[Phoenix]

I am not excusing anyone. I am pointing out the hypocrisy of the east not living up to your agreement then complaining when someone else doesn't.

BTW he was complaining about the company changing the rules not ALPA. Try not to let your hate get in the way.

I don't normally quote scripture but this seemed to fit the situation here.



How about you remove the log (Nicolau) and your refusal to play by the rules before you complain about the company refusing to play by the rules.

You cast pearls in this pig pen? Tell us more about our sins. You almost have us persuaded.

No one agreed to any windfall. And in case you missed it, ALPA provided a means to reject a windfall (even if they shirked their responsability to follow their own policy). The pilots retained the authority to reject a windfall in a vote... You like the windfall, you deny the windfall, too bad majority decides what is a windfall.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Here's a few thoughts:

Hypocrisy is not against the law! Thank God for that as we'd have a lot of folks in prison.

Acting in ones own self interest is also not illegal.

Contracts are made to be broken

Lawyers get rich pitting ego against ego

Name calling is almost never productive,

Calling each other "Scabs" makes you look like petulant children