US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Iclubbabyseals]

So in the eyes of the court there is no windfall with the Nicolau.

Nice "leap of faith" there, buddy boi.

The court implied no such thing, though, living in the heat, I can understand your fatuous, faux intellectual fantasies.

 

[SparrowHawk]

So SH, if your renter walked away from his lease in his self interest, you'd be OK with that? You wouldn't sue him because contracts are made to be broken?

I'd appreciate you actually think before you post here. I know you desperately want to interject thoughts regardless of whether or not they're relevant, or even logical, but come on.

Sure I'd sue and I'd win a judgement as well. That's easy, takes less then an hour including the court appearance. Where the wicket gets sticky is trying to collect the judgement.

Your beloved NIC Award is similar to my Judgement. Great! We both have a piece of paper signed by a judge and the simple truth is if in my example the guy doesn't want to pay his back rent it ain't getting paid unless I'm prepared to dog him night and day. Following him to work, attempting to garnish wages. Get the Garnishment order and find out he quit and moved again stiffing another landlord. Finally after dogging him around the PHL suburbs he up and moves 2,000 miles away and guess what I'm not ever collecting. Oh and if he avoids me for ten years the statute of Limitations prohibits me from attempting to collect in some states. So I'm toast unless I get lucky and he screws up and I can snag one years income tax refund before he disappears again into the vapor.

You think USAPA didn't know the above when they formed and took legal action? If your answer is no then send me a SASE along with a check for $1,000 and I'll send you a deed to the Brooklyn Bridge.

 

[Move2CLT]

Actually, the courts do try fairness - what is a Duty of Fair Representation case about if not fairness?

The east, in it's smug certainty that it could do what it wanted merely because it was the majority, completely botched having a court judge the fairness of the Nic (not that the outcome would have changed). USAPA should have replaced the east MEC in the suit over the Nic but in it's arrogance didn't. So now you have lost the option of having a court look at the fairness of the Nic.

So now, having botched everything so far, you want to cry about fairness?

Jim

I'm going to disagree with you Jim on the courts being able to judge (or wanting to judge) the fairness of an arbitration. That's a sticky situation they'd be setting themselves up for as well as undermining the entire process.

Peruse this and see what you think:

http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/colorado/codce/1:2011cv01313/126176/53/0.pdf?ts=1330781284

Here's a relevant bit from the Judge:

An arbitrator acts within his authority when the award “draws its essence” from the agreement and does not “simply reflect the arbitrator’s own notions of industrial justice.” United Paperworkers Int’l Union v. Misco, Inc., 484 U.S. 29, 38 (1987). “[A]s long as the arbitrator is even arguably construing the contract and acting within the scope of his authority, that a court is convinced he committed serious error does not suffice to overturn his decision.” Id.

 

[Move2CLT]

You think USAPA didn't know the above when they formed and took legal action?

No, they didn't. I know that for a fact.

What they though was their majority would push it through.

Square peg, round hole mentality. With a bit of muscle they thought they could make it work.

With us, justice has take a bit longer, but when you're setting precedence at every turn you have to expect this.

And we'll collect. Either monetarily or via clawback, we'll be made whole. And the great thing is is that we won't have to wait too much longer.

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

Square peg, round hole mentality.

Couldn't have described yourself better. Thanks.

 

[Move2CLT]

Couldn't have described yourself better. Thanks.

Good one. Now rest your brain.

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

Good one. Now rest your brain.

Why, when someone writes their own obituary? Didn't even have to think on that one. Thanks.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I'm going to disagree with you Jim on the courts being able to judge (or wanting to judge) the fairness of an arbitration.

Read what I wrote instead of what you think I wrote...

Jim

 

[Ames]

Sure I'd sue and I'd win a judgement as well. That's easy, takes less then an hour including the court appearance. Where the wicket gets sticky is trying to collect the judgement.

Your beloved NIC Award is similar to my Judgement. Great! We both have a piece of paper signed by a judge and the simple truth is if in my example the guy doesn't want to pay his back rent it ain't getting paid unless I'm prepared to dog him night and day. Following him to work, attempting to garnish wages. Get the Garnishment order and find out he quit and moved again stiffing another landlord. Finally after dogging him around the PHL suburbs he up and moves 2,000 miles away and guess what I'm not ever collecting. Oh and if he avoids me for ten years the statute of Limitations prohibits me from attempting to collect in some states. So I'm toast unless I get lucky and he screws up and I can snag one years income tax refund before he disappears again into the vapor.

You think USAPA didn't know the above when they formed and took legal action? If your answer is no then send me a SASE along with a check for $1,000 and I'll send you a deed to the Brooklyn Bridge.

Gettng back to your comment that "contracts are made to be broken"; are you ok with that? Are you ok with the fact that you have to jump through all the hoops you describe only to end up with nothing? Our society would implode if people were ok with that.

 

[Move2CLT]

Why, when someone writes their own obituary? Didn't even have to think on that one. Thanks.

Sure thing. Now do as I say and rest your brain.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Gettng back to your comment that "contracts are made to be broken"; are you ok with that? Are you ok with the fact that you have to jump through all the hoops you describe only to end up with nothing? Our society would implode if people were ok with that.

It is imploding for the reasons you mentioned and NO I'm not OK with it. I, do however live in the real world and like it or don't the above and the USAPA situation are fast becoming the order of the day.

Companies like CO/EA under Lorenzo and now US under Parker changed the rules to the game as did USAPA. Good old fashioned hardball is alive and well. I don't make the rules I just play the game to win. No sportsmanship awards required thank you.

Do I like it? Agree with it? NO!!! Do I accept it for what it is? YES. Welcome to the new millennium. Truth is Treason in the Empire of lies.

 

[Move2CLT]

It is imploding for the reasons you mentioned and NO I'm not OK with it. I, do however live in the real world and like it or don't the above and the USAPA situation are fast becoming the order of the day.

Companies like CO/EA under Lorenzo and now US under Parker changed the rules to the game as did USAPA. Good old fashioned hardball is alive and well. I don't make the rules I just play the game to win. No sportsmanship awards required thank you.

Do I like it? Agree with it? NO!!! Do I accept it for what it is? YES. Welcome to the new millennium. Truth is Treason in the Empire of lies.

And because you work in the airline industry, this makes you mad, right?

 

[HPearlyretiree]

And because you work in the airline industry, this makes you mad, right?

Come on, he is angry because he didn't get his swizzle stick in his drink when he flew in First Class 5 years ago! Now, he is Norma Rae.

 

[SparrowHawk]

And because you work in the airline industry, this makes you mad, right?

Mad is the wrong choice of words.

I don't like it when good people get the crappy end of the stick from their company. I threw a heck of a lot of business at US Airways and the only people they treat worse than customers are their employees. Face it you're just so much shite under Kirby and Parker's feet. You're like a landing gear assembly, a tow motor, beverage cart or a bag loader, just another piece of equipment. If they cared this debacle would be done long ago.

Then to top it off you've go two groups of some of the most highly skilled pilots in the world fighting among themselves while the Brinks truck pulls up to the front door to Deliver Doug's Bonus. You guys are the living breathing definition of insanity, ALL of you, Every last one of you. To allow that drunken turd to steal your money by pitting you against each other. It doesn't bother you that EVERY day Doug Parker takes food from your kids mouth. Makes you keep the car a year extra, etc etc!!! A big chunk of that bonus and the 81 Million in profits belongs to you, the pilots and frankly if you all are to testosterone poisoned to get a deal done send me the money OK?

I don't generally don't business with companies that treat their workers poorly. I won't step foot in a Wal-Mart and it's been awhile since I darkened the doorstep of a US flight as well. I can post here until the keyboard melts in hopes that someone will take action or I can just not do business. I chose to do both. Now you know why I'm here. Not mad just exercising my first amendment rights

 

[Move2CLT]

The FAs are making fun of you on another thread. Dilgas, or something like that, doesn't seem to think much of you either.