US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Move2CLT]

Major expansion planned for CLT http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/04/09/3158982/airport-bets-a-billion-on-future.html Time to close up shop in PHX. http://www.twgarchitects.com/portfolio_detail.asp?portfolio_aviation=13

YAWN.

 

[nic4us]

USAPA may be irrelevant, but they represent you, me and everyone else. Are the gains you achieved at the hands of the NIC enough to offset potential losses at the hands of the APA? It's too late to change unions. USAPA WILL be at the table when the seniority negotiations start. You put a lot of energy into this board (15+ posts/day). Maybe you should re-channel some of that energy and make yourself available to the Merger Committee instead of making all these posts which, in the big scheme of things, do little more than tick people off or play to the crowd.

So, do you want Hummel to play ball? Or do you want Hummel to keep a constructive dialog going while at the same time keeping one hand on his wallet? If management wants this so bad, let them pay for it.

Did you send this correspondence to the CLT reps, or are you just making posts?

Driver...

No Driver you are wrong.....usapa does not represent the West and that is the entire problem.

Bates has already been briefed on the situation and understands that the APA would be held liable if they collude with the scab union. With the TWA pilots on property and a good understanding of how ALPA is getting fried, Bates knows better than to make any deals with usapa.

 

[Move2CLT]

USAPA may be irrelevant, but they represent you, me and everyone else. Are the gains you achieved at the hands of the NIC enough to offset potential losses at the hands of the APA? It's too late to change unions. USAPA WILL be at the table when the seniority negotiations start. You put a lot of energy into this board (15+ posts/day). Maybe you should re-channel some of that energy and make yourself available to the Merger Committee instead of making all these posts which, in the big scheme of things, do little more than tick people off or play to the crowd.

So, do you want Hummel to play ball? Or do you want Hummel to keep a constructive dialog going while at the same time keeping one hand on his wallet? If management wants this so bad, let them pay for it.

Did you send this correspondence to the CLT reps, or are you just making posts?

Driver...

I achieved NO gains with Nic and, in fact, move backwards a bit. So save your crying.

USAPA will be at the table for a split second and then disappear. They will have zero influence on this merger.

As for helping at the table, me showing up with the Nic award in had isn't going to go so well with the other members, is it?

 

[nic4us]

Unity is following the outcome of the most recent vote, unless you lose then it's following some other minority view (with the hope that some day it will be the majority).

Get a clue already.

Nobody cares what you vote, how you vote, who you voted for. It is nothing more than background noise.


PS. the Nic is the only accepted system seniority list at LCC. No vote necessary.

 

[Move2CLT]

No Driver you are wrong.....usapa does not represent the West and that is the entire problem.

Bates has already been briefed on the situation and understands that the APA would be held liable if they collude with the scab union. With the TWA pilots on property and a good understanding of how ALPA is getting fried, Bates knows better than to make any deals with usapa.

And Hummel/Bradford have been briefed as well.

The irony here is that Bradford, daddy of USAPA and the fight against the Nic, is going to be part of the BPR that brings Nic onto the property.

 

[Move2CLT]

I did a search for DOH and "date of hire" in the latest CLT update and found nothing.

What happened to the rhetoric? Where's the death to the Nic mantra?

They going soft?

 

[nic4us]

I achieved NO gains with Nic and, in fact, move backwards a bit. So save your crying.

USAPA will be at the table for a split second and then disappear. They will have zero influence on this merger.

As for helping at the table, me showing up with the Nic award in had isn't going to go so well with the other members, is it?

This is what blows me away in this whole mess.

Every single West pilot moved backwards, every single east pilot realized a huge gain, yet they claim it is a West windfall. Why? Because the bottom of their list and their furloughees were not given 85% of the West captain positions?

They coined a new term..."captain years"..and argued that since the West captains would remain captains that the West now gained in "captain years"...???

Is it any wonder they will not be given any input into future transactions?

 

[luvn737s]

Major expansion planned for CLT http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/04/09/3158982/airport-bets-a-billion-on-future.html Time to close up shop in PHX. http://www.twgarchitects.com/portfolio_detail.asp?portfolio_aviation=13

I'd say if AA comes to pass, it's time to close up shop in Philly. JFK's not going anywhere. Slide over (or is it down?) and make room for your Philly refugees. That ought to absorb any attrition.

Tell the new hires you'll keep fighting for them while they are out furloughed. Tell them you know how it feels. Tell them you'll assess the membership for COBRA costs. Tell them anything if it makes you feel less guilty, because it's proven the east pilots don't mean any of it.

 

[Phoenix]

Get a clue already.

Nobody cares what you vote, how you vote, who you voted for. It is nothing more than background noise.


PS. the Nic is the only accepted system seniority list at LCC. No vote necessary.

Uhhu... That would be the minority view.

 

[Move2CLT]

Hey luv,

Do you consider Hummel and the APA showing up in Tempe at the same time to be a coincidence?

I wonder what Hummel is doing with no knowledge of the reps?

 

[Metroyet]

Unity is following the outcome of the most recent vote, unless you lose then it's following some other minority view (with the hope that some day it will be the majority).

If the majority insists upon forcing their ILLEGAL will upon the minority you're going to get exactly nowhere. Of course that should be plainly obvious by now shouldn't it.

 

[USA320Pilot]

USAPA Negotiating Advisory Committee Update: April 7, 2012

Over the last few weeks the NAC has been involved in negotiations with the Company, completing domicile visits and finalizing the latest contract survey to be distributed to all pilots.

During the last week in March we met with the Company in Phoenix to continue negotiations outside of the NMB process. Even though nearly all open sections are on their side of the table, the Company refused to make any proposals on these outstanding sections. This is consistent with their delay, delay, delay strategy. This left us with two relatively minor topics to discuss. Two age related issues - age 60 scheduling conflicts on international trips and the ability for pilots to serve as simulator instructors after reaching age 65.

AGE 60

The Company began the session by presenting their age 60 proposal. Since we have been waiting for a Company response to our last proposal, this is the first time we have discussed this issue in almost a year. The bulk of the discussions centered on the East scheduling system since the West PBS system does not allow conflicted trips to be assigned. True to form, the Company added a provision that is a non-starter for USAPA. Specifically, they want the ability to "stuff" pairings anywhere in an age 60 pilot's line, in order to increase the pilot's line value. They explained that this would only occur if conflicted trips were removed from the pilot's line and he either did not, or was unsuccessful in replacing the time during the SAP process. We asked them why we were hearing this new protocol for the first time after 3+ years of discussing this topic and also advised them that this provision is a non-starter. They said "they had missed it." Right! Additionally, they also still want the ability to force an age 60 pilot to protect a conflicted pairing, and refuse to pay protect the pilot if he is subsequently removed from the pairing as a result of the conflict, and is unable to make up the time. As we have told them many times, they can't have it both ways; either allow the pilot to fly another pairing or pay protect the pilot. As with everything else, it's their way or no way.

Good Faith Bargaining?????

Most troubling however, was when the Company was explaining the document they quickly brushed over an area where we were told that there were no changes from the prior proposal. Knowing this Management's track record, we of course confirmed the language. Guess what, where we were told that the language was "the same" as the prior proposal, Company negotiators (sarcasm), actually inserted language that would force line holders, OUT OF SENIORITY, to reserve lines. When we confronted the Company about this new language, we were told they "forgot to tell us" that the language was different. I thought we were told that the language was the same.

Just so you're aware, when any new language is inserted into a proposal the protocol has always been to underline the new language as well as to use a different font so the new language is clearly identifiable to the parties. However, for whatever reason, the Company's experienced "negotiators" forgot to use this well established protocol.

AGE 65


We also had a discussion on allowing retired pilots to serve as IP's. This discussion resulted from a lawsuit filed by several pilots 5 years ago. The suit was eventually settled and the retirement age change in December 2007 actually put the issue off for 5 years. Since pilots will begin hitting the mandatory retirement age in December, this issue once again needs to be addressed. These discussions are in the very early stages and we have not made any decisions on where they will lead. There are complicated legal issues involved due to the earlier litigation and we will keep you advised of the progress on this item.

Domicile Visits

This week in Phoenix we concluded the final domicile visit. As was the case with the other visits, we were thankful to those pilots who took time from their schedules to stop by to ask questions or just hear directly from the Committee what has, or more accurately what has not been occurring during our bargaining sessions. Among many other things, we were gratified to consistently hear that all pilots (east and west) are committed to obtaining an industry standard contract and that they have NO interest in accepting anything close to the Kirby proposal.

Since many of you were unable to attend any of the sessions, click here to read the pamphlet that was distributed, and is posted on the USAPA website. Understand, this pamphlet was developed prior to the overwhelming rejection (75%) of the flight attendant TA. As a result, were unable to remove the side by side comparison from the pamphlet. Nonetheless, this side by side comparison paints a very clear picture of the Company's doublespeak when it comes to pilot negotiations.

F/A'S tell Management NO!!!!

On the issue of the rejection of the FA's TA; it sends an important message to the Company that you just can't throw a few dollars an hour on the pay rate and decimate other areas of the contract and expect it to pass. Remember that we are seeking an industry standard contract in ALL areas and not just pay rates. We have no intention of bringing you a product that addresses only a few areas of the contract. We believe that you agree with us on that point.

Survey

Lastly we have completed development of our latest contract survey. We met with representatives from Cornell University, who will be administering the survey, to fine tune the questions and insure that they meet the standards for a scientifically valid survey. The proposed survey was presented to the BPR last week and was approved for distribution to the pilots. After a final review by Cornell and necessary programming is complete, we anticipate the survey to be available within a couple weeks. As with the last survey, this will be available to any pilot as long as you have a valid email address on file with USAPA. If you have changed your email recently, please insure that your most recent address is available so you can participate in this important survey. If you do not have a valid or up-to-date email address on file, you can update your email address by emailing records@usairlinepilots.org. This must be completed within the next few days to be included in the Cornell survey.

As always, thanks for your continued support.

 

[luvthe9]

Hey luv,

Do you consider Hummel and the APA showing up in Tempe at the same time to be a coincidence?

I wonder what Hummel is doing with no knowledge of the reps?

Yawn.

 

[Move2CLT]

Yawn.

Your CLT reps didn't seem to think so.

So is Hummel a good guy now that you trust to go to Tempe on his own?

 

[luvthe9]

Tell the new hires you'll keep fighting for them while they are out furloughed. Tell them you know how it feels. Tell them you'll assess the membership for COBRA costs. Tell them anything if it makes you feel less guilty, because it's proven the east pilots don't mean any of it.

Yes, this company will down size by 10 to 15 percent when Hummel gives up the scope, they will be a lot jobs lost.