US Pilots Labor Discussion

[USA320Pilot]

In the CLT Domicile meeting today, the pilots were told there is proof that ALPA National is supplying funds to AOL and the west pilots to finance their legal fight. They have supplied between $500,000 and $1.2 million for the legal fees. I wonder if any of our ALPA fanatics on this side of the Mississippi are getting any financial help? Mark Minor says he is going to start a Card Check to bring ALPA back.

Our lawyer also said that the seniority dispute would have been over after the 9th Circuit Court overturned Judge Wake, but he said the company and the west pilots worked together on the Declaratory Judgement filings because they both benefited from it.

From another source I heard that the APA negotiators signed a deal with Scott Kirby yesterday at a town outside of PHX, for a hostile takeover with the help of Wallstreet. AMR CEO Horton is going nuts! AMR Management pilots are going back to the line. There will be a 7 yr fence.

Pay will be Delta Parity plus 3%. A319 will be paid in the MD-80 and B737 pay group. 190 pay will be Jetblue rates after two years along with all new hires and returning furloughed pilots. Pension will be US Airways 10% to their B Fund and 4% to the 401K. They would freeze the A Fund.

I believe the information discussed at the USAPA CLT Domicile Meeting regarding ALPA is false.

 

[A320 Driver]

Arbitrator Nicolau explained that the top of the
combined list consisted of only US
Airways pilots because Group 1 Captaincies
were “not within [the Shuttle pilots’]
pre-merger career expectations.” All
Shuttle pilots were placed junior to the
junior US Airways Group 1 Captain, for
the purpose of “leaving senior US
Airways [career] expectations essentially
undiminished.”

Hmmm, using his previous logic, the first AWA pilot should have been one number junior to the most junior B767 Captain.

Wonder what that would have looked like?

Driver...

 

[traderjake]

Hmmm, using his previous logic, the first AWA pilot should have been one number junior to the most junior B767 Captain.

Not true.

Slotting uses the number of positions, not the actual pilots that hold the positions.

If there are 100 A330 Captain positions the first 100 East pilots get the first 100 seniority numbers regardless of what position they actually hold.

Said another way, the list is constructed assuming everyone holds the most senior position they can.

 

[A320 Driver]

Not true.

Slotting uses the number of positions, not the actual pilots that hold the positions.

If there are 100 A330 Captain positions the first 100 East pilots get the first 100 seniority numbers regardless of what position they actually hold.

Said another way, the list is constructed assuming everyone holds the most senior position they can.

I'm just saying that is NOT what he did in the Shuttle arbitration. He took our most junior B767 Captain and put the first Shuttle Captain next on the list.

Now before you make your response, why don't you go look at the arbitration. You will see I am right.

Driver...

 

[nycbusdriver]

I'm just saying that is NOT what he did in the Shuttle arbitration. He took our most junior B767 Captain and put the first Shuttle Captain next on the list.

Now before you make your response, why don't you go look at the arbitration. You will see I am right.

Driver...

You are exactly right. And the most junior 767 captain at the time had gotten his bid as a fluke well out of what his seniority logically would have held. More senior pilots just didn't have the bid on file. I believe his number was something like 1017, thus Nicolau put more than the first thousand mainline pilots ahead of the shuttle pilots.

We often saw phenomena like that over the years. Sometimes, new hires were assigned as 727 FIRST officers since bids went lacking. In the last 10 years, we've seen new hires get assigned to the 757/767. It happens.

I thought Nicolau was out of his mind then; in 2007 he proved it. (I benefitted from BOTH those arbitrations, and I still think Nicolau was clueless and had little grasp of how airline pilots actually work.)

 

[EastUS1]

I thought Nicolau was out of his mind then; in 2007 he proved it.

...and then some.

 

[EastUS1]

I believe the information discussed at the USAPA CLT Domicile Meeting regarding ALPA is false.

Well, that ups the odds of it being true a thousandfold 😉

 

[Res Judicata]

You are exactly right. And the most junior 767 captain at the time had gotten his bid as a fluke well out of what his seniority logically would have held. More senior pilots just didn't have the bid on file.

HA!! How Eastie of you... One would think that the most super duper experienced, UltraMax Hyper SENIOR pilot groups in the Steven Hawking Omniverse would actually know how bidding works.

You guys should have thrown a two year old hissy fit and demanded your do over based on the fact you didn't understand the rules....like having a standing bid on file.

It's always something with you guys. You take responsibility for nothing, and blame is always the first order of business. No wonder you haven't advanced out of the 80's. I welcome the APA steamroll that is being set up behind the scenes. It's going to happen in one fell swoop. So fast it'll make your Tom Sellack moustaches flutter in the backdraft. When Judge Silver informs the company they're liable if they touch the award, the ball gets passed to APA and game over for you idiots.

 

[luvthe9]

I believe the information discussed at the USAPA CLT Domicile Meeting regarding ALPA is false.

Well, do tell us what your "sources" say. When is the UAL merge going to happen. We're never going back to ALPO, you must be on a suiicide watch, I can feel it.

 

[EastUS1]

HA!! How Eastie of you... One would think that the most super duper experienced, UltraMax Hyper SENIOR pilot groups in the Steven Hawking Omniverse would actually know how bidding works.

You guys should have thrown a two year old hissy fit......

It's always something with you guys. You take responsibility for nothing, and blame is always the first order of business. No wonder you haven't advanced out of the 80's. I welcome the APA steamroll that is being set up behind the scenes. It's going to happen in one fell swoop. So fast it'll make your Tom Sellack moustaches flutter in the backdraft. When Judge Silver informs the company they're liable if they touch the award, the ball gets passed to APA and game over for you idiots.

Whew! "You guys should have thrown a two year old hissy fit......" Nonsense. To do so would likely result in yet more useless litigation from such as yourself for copyright infringement.

 

[A320 Driver]

HA!! How Eastie of you... One would think that the most super duper experienced, UltraMax Hyper SENIOR pilot groups in the Steven Hawking Omniverse would actually know how bidding works.

You guys should have thrown a two year old hissy fit and demanded your do over based on the fact you didn't understand the rules....like having a standing bid on file.

It's always something with you guys. You take responsibility for nothing, and blame is always the first order of business. No wonder you haven't advanced out of the 80's. I welcome the APA steamroll that is being set up behind the scenes. It's going to happen in one fell swoop. So fast it'll make your Tom Sellack moustaches flutter in the backdraft. When Judge Silver informs the company they're liable if they touch the award, the ball gets passed to APA and game over for you idiots.

Most of this post makes no sense AT ALL. And the part that gets me the most is the part about welcoming the APA steamroll. If we get steamrolled, YOU get steamrolled. Does your hatred of the East surpass your desire for a fair seniority integration with APA (if that ever happens)?

Driver...

 

[cleardirect]

I agree about the steamroller part. But for the last 4 years the west has been steamrolled by the east so not nothing would be different.

The big problem with a "fair" integration. Whose definition of fair are we going to use? The APA, west, east or an arbitrator?

Would it be fair to put all of the AA WB pilot senior to all of US Air pilots? According to east pilots it is. Wait that was in our merger but unfair in an AA merger. Is it fair to use anything other than DOH according to east pilots it is not. Is it fair to put furloughed pilots at the bottom of the active list? According to east pilots I guess it depends on the merger. Is it east pilots on furlough or the other company.

 

[cleardirect]

Well, do tell us what your "sources" say. When is the UAL merge going to happen. We're never going back to ALPO, you must be on a suiicide watch, I can feel it.

I asked which union leaders said that ALPAwas paying the bill. Would you answer please.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Most of this post makes no sense AT ALL. And the part that gets me the most is the part about welcoming the APA steamroll. If we get steamrolled, YOU get steamrolled. Does your hatred of the East surpass your desire for a fair seniority integration with APA (if that ever happens)?

Driver...

Serious question ...not a flame... what is a fair seniority integration with APA?

 

[A320 Driver]

Serious question ...not a flame... what is a fair seniority integration with APA?

I have NO idea. The NIC, and all the litigation associated with it, has things so screwed up, we have no place to start from.

Driver...