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US Pilots Labor Discussion

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A320 Driver said:
I have NO idea. The NIC, and all the litigation associated with it, has things so screwed up, we have no place to start from.

Driver...
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Might have to agree to start from scratch for all three carriers, the proverbial "takeover".
 
aquagreen73s said:
Serious question ...not a flame... what is a fair seniority integration with APA?
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DOH with ten year fences for both sides. Based on the upcoming attrition both sides will have it would be the fairest method. Erase the furlough issues on the AA side as well.

Skier
 
Chew on this:

JetBlue proposed ammendment to payscale

JETBLUE AIRWAYS
EMPLOYMENT AGREEMENT
FOR PILOTS
ADDENDUM A

Airbus A320 Pay Schedule
The Pilot shall receive the following rate for all hours compensated for pay purposes up to seventy-eight (78) hours per month:

Captain First Officer

Year 1: $142.79 per hour $48.57 per hour
Year 2: $144.60 per hour $70.86 per hour
Year 3: $146.43 per hour $83.47 per hour
Year 4: $148.28 per hour $90.46 per hour
Year 5: $150.16 per hour $94.60 per hour
Year 6: $152.06 per hour $98.84 per hour
Year 7: $153.98 per hour $101.63 per hour
Year 8: $155.94 per hour $102.92 per hour
Year 9: $157.91 per hour $105.80 per hour
Year 10: $159.91 per hour $107.15 per hour
Year 11: $161.94 per hour $110.13 per hour
Year 12: $163.98 per hour $111.52 per hour

Premium Rate. For all hours compensated for pay purposes in a month above seventy-eight (78) hours, the Pilot shall receive the following rates:

Captain First Officer

Year 1: $214.19 per hour $72.86 per hour
Year 2: $216.90 per hour $106.29 per hour
Year 3: $219.65 per hour $125.21 per hour
Year 4: $222.42 per hour $135.69 per hour
Year 5: $225.24 per hour $141.90 per hour
Year 6: $228.09 per hour $148.26 per hour
Year 7: $230.97 per hour $152.45 per hour
Year 8: $233.91 per hour $154.38 per hour
Year 9: $236.87 per hour $158.70 per hour
Year 10: $239.87 per hour $160.73 per hour
Year 11: $242.91 per hour $165.20 per hour
Years 12: $245.97 per hour $167.28 per hour

EMBRAER 190 Pay Schedule
The Pilot shall receive the following rate for all hours compensated for pay purposes up to seventy-eight (78) hours per month:

Captain First Officer

Year 1: $128.51 per hour $48.57 per hour
Year 2: $130.15 per hour $63.78 per hour
Year 3: $131.79 per hour $75.13 per hour
Year 4: $133.45 per hour $81.40 per hour
Year 5: $135.15 per hour $85.15 per hour
Year 6: $136.85 per hour $88.96 per hour
Year 7: $138.59 per hour $91.47 per hour
Year 8: $140.35 per hour $92.63 per hour
Year 9: $142.12 per hour $95.22 per hour
Year 10: $143.92 per hour $96.43 per hour
Year 11: $145.75 per hour $99.11 per hour
Year 12: $147.59 per hour $100.35 per hour

Premium Rate. For all hours compensated for pay purposes in a month above seventy-eight (78) hours, the Pilot shall receive the following rates:

Captain First Officer

Year 1: $192.77 per hour $72.86 per hour
Year 2: $195.23 per hour $95.67 per hour
Year 3: $197.69 per hour $112.70 per hour
Year 4: $200.18 per hour $122.10 per hour
Year 5: $202.73 per hour $127.73 per hour
Year 6: $205.28 per hour $133.44 per hour
Year 7: $207.89 per hour $137.21 per hour
Year 8: $210.53 per hour $138.95 per hour
Year 9: $213.18 per hour $142.83 per hour
Year 10: $215.88 per hour $144.65 per hour
Year 11: $218.63 per hour $148.67 per hour
Year 12: $221.39 per hour $150.53 per hour

If they accept, they will receive retroactive pay to January 1st 2012 (lump sum)

USAPA: Chasing the Do-Over dream at any and all costs. What forest?
 
luvthe9 said:
Well, do tell us what your "sources" say. When is the UAL merge going to happen. :lol: :lol: :lol: We're never going back to ALPO, you must be on a suiicide watch, I can feel it.
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Speaking of suicide watch, If any of you guys are close friends with "crazystnic" maybe you should pick up a phone or run by and check in on him. After his last morose posting, I almost felt sorry for him. Then I thought about personal responsibility and the like... Things that Mom used to say such as; "you've made your bed..." etc. Cheers!!! Happy Anniversary!
 
Compass Correction Update (A Stark Choice!): April 17, 2012

The PHL Domicile Election - A Stark Choice!

Below is a letter from PHL Vice Chairman Candidate, Paul Music. Paul wrote it in response to the Compass Correction’s recent critique of “Grievance Training”. The letter was sent to a blog and, in my opinion, gives real insight into the candidate’s thinking process. It appears below, in full, with our comments IN RED:

Paul Music writes:

Fellow PHL Pilots,

I was recently the victim of a personal attack by a group named The Compass Correction. My credibility and ethics were placed into question. I was ‘essentially’ accused of ‘stealing’ almost two thousand dollars of union funds through the use of Flight Pay Loss.

No Paul, the question is this; Unionism or Cronyism? We didn’t question your ethics, only your judgment. In our opinion, this whole thing would set off alarm bells in the head of any candidate.

Several of you have asked for an explanation and you deserve one. Unfortunately, the attack went to many of you through ‘their’ site, but my rebuttal went to only a few. To clarify what should never have been an issue, I will just repost my response to one of our concerned pilots when he asked me to respond to the Compass Correction. If you do not have the time or inclination to read this, please at least read the last section. Thank you:

We disagree with Paul, this is the very sort of activity that has been an issue for three years and remains one to this day.
---------------

Tim,

I have no intention to responding to the Compass Correction. They are not the least bit interested in the legitimate use of FPL. They are concerned that Jamie will likely lose this election and they are grasping at straws to throw anything into the mix to prevent that from happening. They are also 'fully aware' that I am not a puppet to Mike Cleary or anyone else. While disappointing, it is their way of slinging mud and getting their candidate elected. Ethically or not!

We report and let the pilot’s decide the ethics of actions around here Paul. On this one by the way, we’re not getting a lot of hate mail.

Also, while I will not respond to them because of their political motivation, I will however respond to you. As PHL pilots you have every right to get answers to any of your concerns. I will also forward this information to as many as possible because if it is an issue, it should be addressed. I will not however fall victim to a group whose sole purpose is to create disruption and distort the truth.

First off, they are making this out to be some 'nefarious' behind the scenes, cloak and dagger issue. This is not the case and they should be ashamed of themselves.

The political motivation accusation has some truth; we endorse a different candidate. The reason for that is Paul’s own actions and this letter of defense; we are not impressed. As to “cloak and dagger”; no, we never thought that. It is simply another demonstration of the arrogance of power, by Friends of Cleary, Szpryka and Parrella. They learned their craft from the Master.

I can only tell you the facts and you can make up your own mind:

I received a call from Spike a few weeks ago and just a few days before a scheduled Grievance Training session which is put on by four members of the Committee. I was informed that they were short staffed and could not handle the work load to properly represent the large number of pilots with only a couple qualified (pilots. They wanted two or three more pilots that had interest in representing the union (Paul, it is a fine but critical point; representation is all about the pilots, don’t you see?) regardless of their 'representative' status. They have attempted over and over again to get Jamie trained (not true) (which is a legal requirement for representation) (also not true); but he could never find the time (not true) even though he has been an interim rep for over four months. This is a significant legal issue and one the Compass guys should be more concerned with.

There were three East pilots in attendance and the two PHX reps ‘no showed’ (again, from what I have been told).

(Not true, and who, we wonder, told you that whopper?)

I can't speak for anyone else but I can tell you this: I specifically asked Spike if we could re-schedule the meeting to a time where I could work around it as I am not senior enough to guarantee I could drop the trip and pick anything else up in the few remaining days of the month. I then asked if they could rearrange the times to complete early enough to get me to PHL from CLT in time for check in. The answer was that they really wanted to fill this class and that if they could get done in time, great. One of the other guys that attended also tried to complete training and still make his trip as well. (The point of this training is to prepare elected representatives for their duties. Simply filling a class that was scheduled at the last minute, for either political reasons, or for the convenience of Tracy Parrella is not acceptable.)

In reality, what was 'scheduled' for 3 hours took a full day and we did not get finished till after 1900. There was no way to do both and regardless of how it has been skewed as unimportant, etc., the Grievance Committee puts a very high value on this training and they consider it too valuable to miss. After having accomplished this training, I agree and would love to find a way for every one of us to attend or at least have access to the information.

The point being that everyone there was trying to do this voluntarily and had honest concern for the union. When we expressed our concerns, we were informed that this was a budgeted item and that they were well within budget.

In addition, I am somewhat taken aback that anyone would think that this was some kind of 'good deal' and anyone was taking advantage of the union and their dues.

While these 'accusers' may hate their jobs and would love to have their trips bought; I am not of that mindset. I normally fly IRO and work to maintain landing currency. I also get bottom of the barrel trips. This trip was an 'F/O trip to Rome'. For me this was primo. The last thing I wanted was to drop the best trip I had. Further, I estimate that every trip to Europe has a tax consequence of about $130. When added to the per diem; I estimate that this training cost me over $300 out of my pocket. So for me to be accused of improper conduct for doing something that took me away from where I wanted to be and cost me money out of my pocket for my efforts is very short sighted.

I have nothing else to say on this matter.

Now however, having opened up the door; why don't we look at the real issues? As you know, everything I have written has dealt with the central theme of 'unity'. There is no secret that I consider unity to be the most important weapon in our arsenal.

Up until today, I truly believed that the two people that I know of on the Compass Correction, Eric Rowe and Dave Ciabbatoni, were very strong pilot supporters that truly cared about our pilots. From my experiences with both of them, I honestly thought that these were guys that any one
of us could rely on. That they were the kind of pilot that I have been professing.

I totally discounted all of the accusations that they so much hated Mike Cleary that they would sell their own mothers if it would bring him down.

(So let’s get this straight Paul? Is the Cleary Clans’ position that Eric and Dave brought him down and not his own behavior / performance?)

I just could not believe that pilots that outwardly profess unity, would inwardly sell us out for their own personal gain. In fact, as so many know; I have supported them at every opportunity; exactly as I would expect from my fellow pilots and have written much of their writing off as just being 'misguided'.

(Thank you, Paul, from DC, ER, WM…by the way; exactly which, “personal gain”?) Paul, you are listening to Cleary and/or Friends of Cleary. The reason we know this simple; you, like Mike, CAN’T IMAGINE anyone like Dave and me, who write and do for the pilots, simply because it is the right thing to do and not for personal gain. YOU, Paul, have fallen in with a bad crowd, already.)

Now I am in a quandary. I just don't want to believe it's true. The type of people I respect and hold in high esteem are the ones driving the knife in our backs. Say it ain't so.....

Paul

--------------------
Folks, as disappointing as it is; the Compass Correction apparently has no bounds and will do ‘whatever it takes’ to further their agenda and their candidate. While I don’t know where the next attack to discredit will occur; I do expect it will occur. Unfortunately, there are no checks and balances to their writings. As many are inclined to believe what they read and there is no method of rebuttal; their information is often taken as gospel and not recognized for its true and often ‘misleading’ intent.

(We must inject here that our list is a public one. Anyone can be on it. We exclude no one. Every one of our Compass Corrections gives the receiver the opportunity to be out for good, with a single click of the mouse over the, “Unsubscribe” icon.)

(No pilot wishing to publish a correction of our facts in over hundreds of dispatches has ever been denied that opportunity. By contrast, the Cleary Clan’s Chief Editor, William G Glynn is too selective to allow a guest editorial. Paul, you are short on facts.)

I can only ask that you ignore the obvious negativity and attempts to discredit, and look at each of the three candidates objectively. You can then choose the candidate that you believe will best represent you in the critical events that lie ahead. I then hope you will vote for me.

I am Paul D. Music, Candidate, PHL Vice Chairman.

HTTPS://www.Ballotpoint.com/USAPA. Phone: 800 826-5530
4 Days Left to Vote!

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Back to Compass Correction:

We believe that after reading First Officer Weidner’s piece, (below) – that it will shed light on the depth of the Cronyism that we assert. Falling in with the Cleary Crowd might be the downfall of candidate Music; we think that’s what really got him ticked.

•But remember who got the job done when you wanted ALPA/ Bill Pollock and his cronies gone.
•We like to think the same guys played a big role in helping you get rid of that busload on The Handsome Jack (Stephan) - Crony Express too! You do remember that one, we hope?
•In our view, The Cleary Clan is just more of the same, old ALPA crap and the Compass Correction believes that the PHL Pilots stand ready again to rid themselves of Gravy Trainers, one more time.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Now from candidate Weidner, in his own words:

For The Record

For the record, much has been said about grievance training. It has been turned into a campaign issue by the PHL Chairman, who used union dues money to train people unnecessarily. There is not, nor has there ever been, a lack of qualified people to represent pilots in the Chief Pilot’s office. In PHL we have the current Chairman, a Vice Chair, the three previous Pilot Representatives and Eric Jordan trained and available if asked to go in to the Chief Pilot’s Office with you if the need would arise. That’s six people and we just trained three more. Does that make sense to you?

My stance has always been, since taking the position of Eric Jordan’s DDR, that if they wanted to train me I would go, but if they wanted to wait until after the election to save money that would be fine too. The first and only time I heard of training was on Feb. 22, when I received the following email from Catherine McHale:

Board of Pilot Representatives and Officers:

Most of you, if not all, have received Grievance/Pilot Representation Training from Tracy. If you are on this distribution list and have not received this training, please let me know so I can schedule a session.

Thank you.

Cathy

I replied and on 3-22 received the following (verbatim):

Board of Pilot Representatives and Officers:

Please note that the Grievance Committee we will be conducting grievance training on Tuesday, March 27th starting at 13:00 EST at USAPA.

Catherine L. McHale

I replied on 3-23:

Catherine,

I have a prior commitment on the 27th and am unable to attend. Any possibility of the 30th?

Respectfully,

Jamie A. Weidner
PHL Vice Chair DDR

And I sent this:

Cathy. Is it possible to do the training on the evening of the 28th or 29th or morning of 30th. It would work better with anyone flying in from PHX. Thanks. Jamie

Sent from my iPhone

And then I received this from Steve Szpyrka :

Sent: Fri 3/23/2012 4:46 PM

Cathy,

I am already having three pilots attending the grievance training that is scheduled for the 27th at noon. Please do not move that training date because of the trip drops that have already been arranged.

Thank you,

Spike

To which I replied:

Steve,

Who are we training and why are we wasting dues monies training pilots that aren't BPR members? We have past BPR members already trained that could be used if needed.

Pilots and other reps are asking.

Jamie A. Weidner

As usual, I have still not received a response from your Chairman. Please feel free to ask him why he feels the need to waste your money.

During this time that I was attempting to get the training rescheduled, Gary Hummel was also trying to reschedule the training around our March 28-29 BPR meeting in CLT so that the PHX representatives and Steve Smyser could attend. Tracy never made an attempt to train us at another time that would work.

You also might find it interesting that all three of the pilots picked for the training were nominated for the Vice Chair position in the PHL election. That is quite a coincidence. This has all of the makings of credential building in the event that one of the three ran. Especially considering the fact pointed out earlier that there were no less than six qualified individuals in PHL already. Hence the Compass Correction’s article identifying and exposing the issue of what could appear to be the use of union dues money in support of a candidate for office.

To be fair to Paul Music, I have no idea if he was mislead by someone into believing that there was an urgent need for pilot representatives in PHL, but with six people trained there obviously was not. My response is due to the fact that he stated in his letter that I had been offered training “over and over again” but declined. That is patently false and as someone who wishes to be a representative for the PHL pilots he should know that he needs to do his own due diligence in checking the facts. Also, there is no “legal” requirement for a representative to take the training as he states. A pilot can go in to the Chief Pilot’s Office with whomever they want as a representative.

Respectfully,

Jamie A. Weidner

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There you have it, our final word.

On the election,

Ya gotta read the fine print, OK? PLEASE VOTE!


Eric Rowe PHL-A330
Woody Menear PHL-7i
 
A320 Driver said:
I'm just saying that is NOT what he did in the Shuttle arbitration. He took our most junior B767 Captain and put the first Shuttle Captain next on the list.

Now before you make your response, why don't you go look at the arbitration. You will see I am right.
Click to expand...
I'll take your word on that one.

I'm wrong and stand corrected.
 
cltrat said:
that seemed to work for every other work group on the property
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So it will work with AMR then, correct? I suppose the Airways rampers are going to waltz in and "tell" the AMR rampers that it will be DOH, do I have that right?
 
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