US Pilots Labor Discussion

[goneflyin]

Slotting with DOH as the baseline.

DL/NW was clsoe enough in DOH, with the company sweetening the pot that no-one objected, legally.

Had the Shuttle pilots been 15 yrs junior, would there have been legal objections, hell yes!

The Frontier pilots were much more senior to the Republic pilots, so management decided not to continue with the merger.

That leaves us......and based on DOH, NIC screwed it up. It is the first time in these unchartered waters, and it will never go through.

So, give it up.....your 4 arbritrations theory sucks. It doesn't hold water.

breeze

You either have poor comprehension skills, or never even read the DL/NWA arbitration award.

 

[mrbreeze]

You mean the Frontier pilots who also objected to merging with Southwest?

Real men of genius.

Yep, those guys......who stood up for what they believed was right. The Airtran pilots stood up to the SWA pilots and came out in a much better position.

breeze

 

[cleardirect]

In the CLT Domicile meeting today, the pilots were told there is proof that ALPA National is supplying funds to AOL and the west pilots to finance their legal fight. They have supplied between $500,000 and $1.2 million for the legal fees. I wonder if any of our ALPA fanatics on this side of the Mississippi are getting any financial help? Mark Minor says he is going to start a Card Check to bring ALPA back.

Our lawyer also said that the seniority dispute would have been over after the 9th Circuit Court overturned Judge Wake, but he said the company and the west pilots worked together on the Declaratory Judgement filings because they both benefited from it.

From another source I heard that the APA negotiators signed a deal with Scott Kirby yesterday at a town outside of PHX, for a hostile takeover with the help of Wallstreet. AMR CEO Horton is going nuts! AMR Management pilots are going back to the line. There will be a 7 yr fence.

Pay will be Delta Parity plus 3%. A319 will be paid in the MD-80 and B737 pay group. 190 pay will be Jetblue rates after two years along with all new hires and returning furloughed pilots. Pension will be US Airways 10% to their B Fund and 4% to the 401K. They would freeze the A Fund.

Yet another dumb ass theory from the east pilots. Which union official told you that? You guys thinking ALPA is paying our legal fees. Well I guess that means it is time for another law suit. Open the check books boys and sue ALPA for discovery. Come boys prove your theory.

 

[traderjake]

You either have poor comprehension skills, or never even read the DL/NWA arbitration award.

Or both.

 

[mrbreeze]

Oops, you're right - Republic agreed to spin off Frontier...

Yeah, the "I know everyone everywhere" rationale...did Orville and Wilber tell you how unhappy they were when you were riding their jumpseat? If it were that simple Republic could just split Frontier back off to a separate carrier so why spin off Frontier? For that matter, why doesn't Parker spin off the east since all it takes is unhappy pilots to justify such actions? If you think Republic would do something just to please a few unhappy pilots you're smoking some strong s#@t...

So you're claiming that the arbitrators award is still up in the air? I could have sworn that it was presented to US and accepted. No wonder you're so wrong so much of the time...whatever world you live in is far removed from reality...

So it's 4 of 4 arbitrations.

Jim

You totally changed your whole post, so I don't know if any of my response fits now.

 

[mrbreeze]

You either have poor comprehension skills, or never even read the DL/NWA arbitration award.

Wrong on both counts.

breeze

 

[cleardirect]

Four arbitrations... Arbitrations....

The white elephant in the room is the outsourcing... Outsourcing via ALPA trickery that not only was designed for them to shirk all responsibility but also got us to pay twice for the job they collected for but refused to do. Folks want to talk about reneging but can't see the elephant sitting in their favorite recliner with one foot ontop of the remote and the other on top of the chips and dip..

Care to explain how ALPA arbitration is different than A/M arbitration?

If we merge with AA are you going to complain about out sourcing?

 

[mrbreeze]

Or both.

Obviously, we are not going to have a friendly discussion here.

So, stop trying to sell the bogus "4 arbritration" BS.....it is not true and you know it.

breeze

 

[BoeingBoy]

Breezy,

Was there an arbitration in the Shuttle merger? Read the award - it went by relative position and equipment.

Was there an arbitration in the DL/NW merger? Read the award - it also was by relative position/equipment.

Was there an arbitration in the Republic/Frontier merger? Again, relative position by equipment.

Was there an arbitration in the US/HP merger? Yet again, relative position by equipment.

4 arbitrations, all awarded using relative position by equipment (or equipment bands).

How you can keep denying the obvious is beyond me...your "yeah, but..." is a fantasy.

Jim

 

[traderjake]

On Monday, December 8, the leadership of the Delta and Northwest pilot groups, both represented by the Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l (ALPA), received the arbitration decision in the case of the integration of their pre-merger seniority lists into a single seniority list.


The arbitrated list is constructed on the foundation of a “ratioed status and category” methodology.



http://www.alpa.org/portals/alpa/pressroom/pressreleases/2008/2008-12-8_08.DAL8.htm

 

[Ames]

I'm afraid NIC will not be usable, but a relative position 3 way list is possable, in which case you would come out better than with the NIC.

Yeah, you guys get to slide all of your formerly furloughed pilots right in there ahead of west pilots, captains included. Talk about a lottery ticket!

 

[Ames]

Not really.

Because you can't.

 

[Ames]

Said "sensible answers" did nothing but forward conditional circumstances, by way of "justification" and entirely failed to even address the actual question. Some even stated that morality had nothing to do with seniority lists/etc. Superior responses could be had from freshmen taking their very first philosophy class.

"The truth is that you really don't want an answer. " = Complete and utter BS. The TRUTH is that you really don't HAVE an answer.

Enough wasted time. It's a gorgeous day outside.

A quick PS: In fairness to all; it was a "Trick Question". In the absence of a constructed frame; no argued advancement is logically possible for the notion of placing one with less work performed ahead of another with more. I've grown far past disgusted with infantile, nic supporter fantasies of universally inherent "Integrity", and believed that some thought on the basic concept of morality here might be useful...or at least amusing for all.

Such utter and absolute bullshite.

 

[traderjake]

So, stop trying to sell the bogus "4 arbritration" BS.....it is not true and you know it.

I know you're either mentally or ethically challenged.

Or both.

See post 37555.

 

[mrbreeze]

Breezy,

Was there an arbitration in the Shuttle merger? Read the award - it went by relative position and equipment.

Was there an arbitration in the DL/NW merger? Read the award - it also was by relative position/equipment.

Was there an arbitration in the Republic/Frontier merger? Again, relative position by equipment.

Was there an arbitration in the US/HP merger? Yet again, relative position by equipment.

4 arbitrations, all awarded using relative position by equipment (or equipment bands).

How you can keep denying the obvious is beyond me...your "yeah, but..." is a fantasy.

Jim

To Jim and trader,

I really hate to go back and repost all of the stuff....however, even though relative position was used, DOH was a baseline.

Again, Shuttle was close enough and the arvritrator considered time spent at EAL....so no-one legally challenged the award.

DL/NW was close enough in DOH that with managements sweetening up the pot, no legal objections.

Frontier/Republic doesn't even count.

US/HP has the most descrepancy in the DOH lists and there has never been something like this before. It ain't over......since it's unchartered waters.

4 arbritrations......sure...that's a lie.

breeze