US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Barrister]

It's obvious that you don't care as long as the West pilots pay the price to make up for what turned out to be a sorry career for you. Luckily your wishes don't matter to a judge and jury.

Jim

ps: Despite your bravado hiding behind a keyboard, I suspect that there'd be a lot of moaning and groaning if US announced moving 10 A330 to PHX for the West pilots to fly with concurrent furlough of 150-200 East pilots...

Your ignorance is astounding. My career has not kept pace with my
peers but still a far cry better than I ever thought. Captain after 3 years
Captain pay for the last 25 years. Read my posts rocket scientist.
I am not worried about myself in the least. I will be out of a job if
the comany parks 200 airplanes. I will get a check from the PBGC, the military,
several good investments that outweigh the bad and excellent heath.
I got plenty and am thankful for it. I have the back of the people here who
gave the most. The former Captains who are now F/Os and the F/Os
who outright lost their jobs due to bad management and 911. There
is one argument that you will never win and you know it and that is the
EAST wants nothing the West has or ever will have. You are the most
intellectually dishonest poster on the boards for that very reason.
And if a 10 year captain gets furloughed (not wishing it of course)
out west and a 20 year FO out east keeps working
....well sir we just don't care !!!

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[CallawayGolf]

The sad part is they have no idea how ridiculous it makes USAPA look.

And this could be said of 99% of USAPA decisions and public statements made since 2007.

 

[Al Legheny]

Your point?

Oh that's right you still think Parker is going to split us up.

I have asked and never get an answer. You and usapa think you have won this and are going to get DOH and staple the west to the bottom. If I were you I would want another 1000-1500 pilot below me in the next merger. Not sitting near the bottom after 25 years.

But maybe you guys have not thought this all the through as usual.

Not that it is going to happen but fragmentation would be better for us. Cut you people away and we can go join a real airline with reasonable pilots that have integrity and will honor their agreements.

How about at the next crew news you suggest to Parker that he splits this thing up we go our separate ways. See how that works for you.

You have asked what and never gotten an answer. Is Parker going to split us up? Only if it suits him and if the other party see's something in the deal he doesn't want. It could happen, I might not. It is unlikely to happen to the East due to the nature of our scope language. Parker will do what he has to do to make a deal happen.


I don't see the argument concerning a staple job or what pilot is below another. If there are two separate contracts the those contracts will apply in an integration absent a single collective bargaining agreement. Management will need to modify the transition agreement if a merger occours. As the bargining agent USAPA has the ability to modify the transitiion agreement. When push comes to shove Parker is going to do what he has to do to make a merger happen.

Judge Wake did not by the argument that furloughs should be according to the NIC. The terms and conditions of furlough applied to each contract separately. A reduction will use the same methodology. Whatever the applicable contract language is East or West it will apply.

Also a complete split is not required or even necessary, just a limited split or reduction. A complete split doesn't make economic sense. As Parker has stated before 24% of West flying is not profitable. The transition agreement is the only language that protects the West. The East is protected by min fleet in the contract (LOA93)and the transition agreement.

There is no fragmentation protection language in the West Section 1.

 

[Code Name V]

I guess you don't read to good. I said split. That means get away from me. Take your trash and LEAVE.

We do not want to be stuck with you. We want you gone. So work on Parker to split this or retire or quit. Don't care but leave. The sooner you all are gone the sooner the west can get to cleaning up the mess you have caused.

Ba Bye now!

Let's just see what kind of influence and control you have over usapa or usapa has over the company. Show us what you got.

Well at least we agree on something. We don't want you and you don't want us. I have said from the beginning it will never be put together. Now we can agree that we should be working on separate ops forever; and try to get rid of one another. Only then will the name calling and this foolish board be eliminated.

Do me one favor however; take traitor jake and the other of our West Wannabees with you. They will be much happier over there and will have nothing to #### about. And you can staple them if you like. They won't mind.

V

 

[cleardirect]

Your ignorance is astounding. My career has not kept pace with my
peers but still a far cry better than I ever thought. Captain after 3 years
Captain pay for the last 25 years. Read my posts rocket scientist.
I am not worried about myself in the least. I will be out of a job if
the comany parks 200 airplanes. I will get a check from the PBGC, the military,
several good investments that outweigh the bad and excellent heath.
I got plenty and am thankful for it. I have the back of the people here who
gave the most. The former Captains who are now F/Os and the F/Os
who outright lost their jobs due to bad management and 911. There
is one argument that you will never win and you know it and that is the
EAST wants nothing the West has or ever will have. You are the most
intellectually dishonest poster on the boards for that very reason.
And if a 10 year captain gets furloughed (not wishing it of course)
out west and a 20 year FO out east keeps working
....well sir we just don't care !!!

NICDOA
NPJB

That right there is the reason that the majority does not get to decide what is fair and how a list id integrated. The reason the majority does not get to decide what C&R protect the minority.

The reason why a DFR will be won by the west. Furloughing a line holding captain that brought a job while retaining a formally furloughed F/O. a judge or jury will see right through that.

BTW furloughing a west captain to retain an east F/O is wanting something form the west.

 

[luvthe9]

Do me one favor however; take traitor jake and the other of our West Wannabees with you. They will be much happier over there and will have nothing to #### about. And you can staple them if you like. They won't mind.

V

Gees, please don't forget about 924BS (as we call him) and Boeing Boy.

 

[traderjake]

Do me one favor however; take traitor jake and the other of our West Wannabees with you. They will be much happier over there and will have nothing to #### about. And you can staple them if you like. They won't mind.

V

Does anyone care what of a guy who admires Nazi solders for following orders thinks?

You better start over with a new user name.

 

[Code Name V]

Does anyone care what of a guy who admires Nazi solders for following orders thinks?

You better start over with a new user name.

Do you ever listen to those voices in your head or do you just try to tune them out?

V

 

[BoeingBoy]

Your ignorance is astounding. My career has not kept pace with my
peers but still a far cry better than I ever thought. Captain after 3 years
Captain pay for the last 25 years.

You're right, rocket scientist, watching your peers at other airlines get captain on the widebodies while you were stuck on the narrowbodies for years longer is a peach of a career. Then there's LOA 93...and all those jobs that were replaced by Express and shrinkage...sure sounds like a dream come true...

I have the back of the people here who
gave the most. The former Captains who are now F/Os and the F/Os
who outright lost their jobs due to bad management and 911. There
is one argument that you will never win and you know it and that is the
EAST wants nothing the West has or ever will have.-

Yep, you've got their backs alright - wanting to allow those f/o's to jump to captains on the backs of the West. So don't even try to convince me that no one on the East wants anything from the West. By arguing for DOH you're admitting that East wants the West attrition and upgrades. Doesn't matter how many times you say otherwise, your actions reveal your true intentions - take from the West and Give to the East.

Jim

 

[traderjake]

Do you ever listen to those voices in your head or do you just try to tune them out?

V

The voice in my head is called a conscience.

If you had one you woundn't be trying to steal jobs from the West.

 

[cleardirect]

You have asked what and never gotten an answer. Is Parker going to split us up? Only if it suits him and if the other party see's something in the deal he doesn't want. It could happen, I might not. It is unlikely to happen to the East due to the nature of our scope language. Parker will do what he has to do to make a deal happen.


I don't see the argument concerning a staple job or what pilot is below another. If there are two separate contracts the those contracts will apply in an integration absent a single collective bargaining agreement. Management will need to modify the transition agreement if a merger occours. As the bargining agent USAPA has the ability to modify the transitiion agreement. When push comes to shove Parker is going to do what he has to do to make a merger happen.

Judge Wake did not by the argument that furloughs should be according to the NIC. The terms and conditions of furlough applied to each contract separately. A reduction will use the same methodology. Whatever the applicable contract language is East or West it will apply.

Also a complete split is not required or even necessary, just a limited split or reduction. A complete split doesn't make economic sense. As Parker has stated before 24% of West flying is not profitable. The transition agreement is the only language that protects the West. The East is protected by min fleet in the contract (LOA93)and the transition agreement.

There is no fragmentation protection language in the West Section 1.

You had better let you fellow pilot know this.There are a few that are convinced that we will be fragged and and the west is screwed.

My question was if the east thinks that DOH is a done deal. Why would the east want to split if using DOH it puts 1000 west pilot as furlough fodder? Could it be that you all know that eventually the Nicolau will be used and the only way to avoid the Nicolau is a split and try and again with a different airline?

The problem with the theory is that the industry knows how the east operates and you will be the minority next time. You all may wish for the Nicolau going to a merger with AA/DAL/UAL.

 

[Reed Richards]

I already explained "exactly how" that little scenario happens. Another 9-11 style furlough and VOILA'!! Line holding Captains in PHX get to hit the street, being replaced with those who were hopelessly unemployed at the time of the Merger. A little convenient no?

WYE don't you have the condition of “out of seniority furlough protection” in a 9-11 event? I don't know...WYE don't you tell me.

Al Legheny is giving you the straight scoop. WYE did you not listen to your own counsel concerning your "exposure" to bad things with no real Section I?

You should have cut a deal then. Sad thing is you came to the table with marching orders not to deal at all. Almost 4 years later……….and counting.

It is most likely your next set of choices will not come from USAPA, but from Management. One money losing crew base and no scope. We may all go down the tubes anyway, but your choice to go commando on scope is enigmatic. People do strange things when they think they have a winning lottery ticket, but cannot cash it.

RR

 

[Metroyet]

The sad part is they have no idea how ridiculous it makes USAPA look.

Of course they're clueless. Look at their deranged Leader. Mike Cleary is a bald faced LIAR. Watching his latest tough talk video was like watching a comedy special....a deluded, psychotic comedy special. I'm more convinced now than ever that USAPA will NEVER deliver a contract to the pilots. They are simply all to mentally ill to pull it off. Cleary sits there with absolutely ZERO leverage and threatens the Company. When he starts talking about "the list" he looks as if he's about to cry! When coupled with his total misrepresentation of the 9th, and other lies by omission, a sane person should be worried. Frankly, I never in a million years thought I'd say this....I feel sorry for him. This guy is in so deep and failed the Pilots so monumentally, he's simply lost. Completely Lost and beginning to break up.

This is your Leader?!! Holy Crap are you guys screwed!

Separate Ops is really the best thing for the West right now. Let those East maniacs twist in the wind.

 

[AWA320]

Lets work together to keep seperate ops, can we all agree on this? Will have a sit down with Dougie, then we can all be happy. 😀

That is just about the DUMBEST thing you could have said and its no wonder why you are at to bottom of the barrel :angry: You cowboys just dont get it nor will you ever. Seperate ops means certain bunkruptcy genius!

AWA320

 

[oldiebutgoody]

That is just about the DUMBEST thing you could have said and its no wonder why you are at to bottom of the barrel :angry: You cowboys just dont get it nor will you ever. Seperate ops means certain bunkruptcy genius!

AWA320

How so? Go ahead, explain it. GENIUS.