US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Hate2fly]

jetz & jazz,

You guys need to help the west..................come on you two do some of that pilot stuff!

Doug said the nic list was a disputed list...........he just wants a list that is not in dispute.

Hate

 

[mikey60]

I loved the video, and my favorite part was that little jingle'" ding dong the nic is dead the wicked old nic the nic is dead".By the way thanks to whoever ask Mr.

Parker about the nic. I was about to get a MAC but I guess I'll stay with my H/P. By the way I sent that video to a few people to get their opinion on it. They varied

from" very childish" to" makes me wonder about AWA hiring standards."

USAPA... our future
WPPUEP...

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Here's what I thought about the video....If the CEO tells you that he filed the lawsuit because he DOESN'T want to drag out negotiations...He REALLY means he DOES want to drag it out, especially when later in the video he goes on and on about how artificially low labor costs are the airline's ONLY competitive advantage. Hmm. Interesting.

I think that EVERY Crew News video should start out with someone reminding the CEO or President about how they "accepted" the list. It's become sort of a tradition, since we've heard it now on the last several out of PHX.

When I watched the video the second time, I thought maybe the female questioner looked like Nurse Ratched. Then I noticed that the other guys in the room looked like...Na, couldn't be.

 

[mikey60]

I also watched it a second time and I think Parker's problem is trying to talk adult to adult to the westies. He is dealing with a small group of immature " boys"

that thought they were going to be buddies for life. Now that there out of the little pond and into the big pond things have changed, times have changed

but the" boys" have stayed the same. If they can't play their way they want to take their ball and go home, sorry we took your ball away in court and now

it's our ball and if you want to play with it you WILL play by our rules.


GO USAPA

 

[nic4us]

GO USAPA

Go where?

You guys crack me up, another 10 pages and only one West post. Well for fun, here is my take on your paranoid rantings.

1. Cleary actually did an okay job in his interview regarding the new TSA security issues. Now if the idiot were not so obtuse when it came to getting his association sued for failure of DFR, we would all have a better contract with the Nic, which is the only way we are getting a contract.

2. Crew news. Lots of great stuff there.

You might want to look at that a third time for all the two time viewers who are too dense to figure out that he is talking to a West crowd. When he says "you need to decide on a list" he is not saying usapa needs to decide, usapa has already decided that they are going to try to be seniority thieves, and push DOH, "you need to decide" means both pilot groups need to decide. Well here is the news flash, took care of that three years ago, got the Nic, and it is still the only accepted seniority list at LCC, and will be the only implemented list at LCC.

He also mentions specifically, (on tape and admissable in court) that one of the criteria of any list must be that "no furloughees would be placed above working pilots". Sorry all you prolific, want to be seniority theif east posters. DOH ain't going to happen.

He says, the Nic is a "disputed list", well golly gee, who is disputing the Nic, the same seniority theifs who proposed the unquestionably "disputed" DOH list that was never accepted and indeed turned down at the negotiating table, and landed usap in DFR land. We will never get to "unquestionably ripe", because the company ain't touching your "disputed" list.

Parker admits, that if the declaratory judgement is dismissed, the company will appeal. Get it yet? They are not going to negotiate seniority with usap, and hence, they are not going to negotiate a contract with usap unless usap adopts the Nic in section 22.

He talks about the east furlough recalled to the 190 at the last CLT crew news who was complaining about the 190 rates and says, "she is going to be on those rates for a loooooonnnngggg time".

While talking of the loa93 grievence, "waste of time", disengenuine", "crystal clear language, there is no snapback", "not going to be one". He talks about the 10 page letter he sent us all, so that you folks know upfront, that you are not going to get it, and are not disappointed when you do not.

Did anybody bother to watch the F/A videos. Conclusion, "They are done". They are tired of the crap from the company caused by usap's reneging seniority theft scam. usap is going to be a backburner issue shortly.

To sum...you east guys wanted loa93 and seperate ops rather than the Nic. Parker and company have accepted your offer.


PS. triple dog dare usapa to try to determine a new profit sharing distribution method.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Go where?

You guys crack me up, another 10 pages and only one West post. Well for fun, here is my take on your paranoid rantings...

...To sum...you east guys wanted loa93 and seperate ops rather than the Nic. Parker and company have accepted your offer.


PS. triple dog dare usapa to try to determine a new profit sharing distribution method.

You STILL aren't grasping reality. Repeat after me, "the Nic is dead." There, now you get it.

Parker is out of touch as well. Appeals don't always get allowed. It will depend on just what Judge Silver determines, but my guess is that there is little or nothing she can decide at this point. He has to negotiate with the Bargaining Agent, and that happens to be USAPA. He CANNOT, BY LAW, negotiate with anyone else. I think USAPA should push for release from negotiation, take a strike vote and enter the cooling-off period.

One more observation. I don't know if the LOA 93 pay arbitration will go one way or another. Sounds like both sides have a good argument. I do know that if it were as clear-cut as Mr. Parker would have everyone believe that it would be over by now. USAPA had the actual negotiators testify concerning intent of the passages in question, and they have very good testimony and credibility, as well.

 

[Reed Richards]

Nic Said: “ He also mentions specifically, (on tape and admissible in court) that one of the criteria of any list must be that "no furloughed would be placed above working pilots". Sorry all you prolific, want to be seniority theif east posters. DOH ain't going to happen.”

Did he say anything about a 5 month guy going ahead of a guy that had NEVER been furloughed for almost 17 years? Parker can "negotiate" any type of list he can get, that is the real truth even he still seems unable to grasp.

As to furloughed pilots going ahead of active pilots, Addington (and the unnecessary delay they have cost us all) took care of that little scenario. How many furloughed pilots do we now have on the East?

Again, as I said..different folks will hear different things from Parker. He is very adept at dancing around the issues. But he was loud and clear Nic is dead.

Seniority is indeed no different than a crew meal in negotiations. But Parker has just eliminated 3 year old stinking Fish from the menu. Chicken or Beef anyone?

RR

 

[GorgeousGeorge]

Nic Said: “ He also mentions specifically, (on tape and admissible in court) that one of the criteria of any list must be that "no furloughed would be placed above working pilots". Sorry all you prolific, want to be seniority theif east posters. DOH ain't going to happen.”

Did he say anything about a 5 month guy going ahead of a guy that had NEVER been furloughed for almost 17 years? Parker can "negotiate" any type of list he can get, that is the real truth even he still seems unable to grasp.

As to furloughed pilots going ahead of active pilots, Addington (and the unnecessary delay they have cost us all) took care of that little scenario. How many furloughed pilots do we now have on the East?

Again, as I said..different folks will hear different things from Parker. He is very adept at dancing around the issues. But he was loud and clear Nic is dead.

Seniority is indeed no different than a crew meal in negotiations. But Parker has just eliminated 3 year old stinking Fish from the menu. Chicken or Beef anyone?

RR

Actually the TA, say a furloughed employee can't bump or displace an active one, nothing about how the list is ordered or where people are placed after recall. Big difference. All a moot point now, or does the famous Save Dave now ride at the bottom of the list behind the 2007 hires, since he is furloughed. 🙄

 

[Black Swan]

Nic Said: “ He also mentions specifically, (on tape and admissible in court) that one of the criteria of any list must be that "no furloughed would be placed above working pilots". Sorry all you prolific, want to be seniority theif east posters. DOH ain't going to happen.”

Did he say anything about a 5 month guy going ahead of a guy that had NEVER been furloughed for almost 17 years? Parker can "negotiate" any type of list he can get, that is the real truth even he still seems unable to grasp.

As to furloughed pilots going ahead of active pilots, Addington (and the unnecessary delay they have cost us all) took care of that little scenario. How many furloughed pilots do we now have on the East?

Again, as I said..different folks will hear different things from Parker. He is very adept at dancing around the issues. But he was loud and clear Nic is dead.

Seniority is indeed no different than a crew meal in negotiations. But Parker has just eliminated 3 year old stinking Fish from the menu. Chicken or Beef anyone?

RR

He will take the list that comes from his bargaining agent. That is USAPA. It is up to USAPA to deliver a list that protects the east and west. Not just the west. Parker is well aware of this. Has been from the start or he would have put this little dream together years ago. The end of ALPA changed it all, and he knew it from the brief he got from HR and Legal the next day. They were most likely high fiveing and having a toast. West Legal totally misread this one from the start. It cost you massive $$$.The LOA 93 deal? This one has them terrified. If USAPA takes the win, they know they HAVE to pay. If they don't, then they have opened the door for USAPA with other options that they certainly don't want, and will be much more costly. If USAPA loses, there is no appeal. To use the adjectives Parker used to describe the LOA 93 grievance is very telling of this mans' actual views of labor. He is using the division and unrest to profit by the hour. And pad his bonus. It is high time both groups work out an acceptable peace that we all can live with, because the company is going to exploit both sides forever. It is now up to us.

 

[Reed Richards]

Actually the TA, say a furloughed employee can't bump or displace an active one, nothing about how the list is ordered or where people are placed after recall.

Agreed. I was just pointing out that even if Nic's logic had any merit, his scenario was moot.

RR

 

[Freighterguynow]

While talking of the loa93 grievence, "waste of time", disengenuine", "crystal clear language, there is no snapback", "not going to be one". He talks about the 10 page letter he sent us all, so that you folks know upfront, that you are not going to get it, and are not disappointed when you do not.

Did anybody bother to watch the F/A videos. Conclusion, "They are done". They are tired of the crap from the company caused by usap's reneging seniority theft scam. usap is going to be a backburner issue shortly.

It is not up to him.

Yes the West flight attendants ARE done. Take a look at all the red "NO" luggage tags out East. That would be 'no' to splitting from the pilots - which the East group is flat out unwilling to do.

Yet the West group, out voted 2 - 1, refuses to accept this thinking things are going their way or the highway.

Sound familiar?

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Here's an idea. If somehow the LOA 93 goes the way the East pilots want, that puts USAPA in the driver seat. They could make the company start the new pay immediately, then make the company an offer, something like: we'll give you 90 days to come up with a new, acceptable contract, with better pay, rigs, vacation, etc. If they don't, The back pay is due, to be paid immediately. If they do come up with an acceptable contract, the back pay can be negotiated, i.e. maybe paid over several years into the pilot's retirement fund or something, or even used to pay for some of the better things in the contract.

If it doesn't go the pilots' way, there won't be a contract until a major job action happens. That's the way I see it.

 

[oscarjazz]

jetz & jazz,

You guys need to help the west..................come on you two do some of that pilot stuff!

Doug said the nic list was a disputed list...........he just wants a list that is not in dispute.

Hate

This board changed their rules to allow your sophomoric insults to rule the day. There is no purpose arguing with you about anything and you guys just end up throwing a bunch trash talk around along with insults. Who needs it. You have your own little cheering society here where you get to hear exactly what you want to hear. Why break up your fantasy world. I only come here to read on current events and see how things are going. I want to know if the LOA arbitration goes the way I think, and I am interested in the declaratory judgment results. Again, just trying to gauge how my predictions pan out. Getting into an insult match with you guys has no interest for me.

USAPA right now is a case study of a failed union and an example of what not to do. There is no other pilot group that doesn't look at this spectacle and shake their heads. So sorry, I won't engage beyond this post telling you why it's not worth it to post on a forum that is dominated by fifth grade insults.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

This board changed their rules to allow your sophomoric insults to rule the day. There is no purpose arguing with you about anything and you guys just end up throwing a bunch trash talk around along with insults. Who needs it. You have your own little cheering society here where you get to hear exactly what you want to hear. Why break up your fantasy world. I only come here to read on current events and see how things are going. I want to know if the LOA arbitration goes the way I think, and I am interested in the declaratory judgment results. Again, just trying to gauge how my predictions pan out. Getting into an insult match with you guys has no interest for me.

USAPA right now is a case study of a failed union and an example of what not to do. There is no other pilot group that doesn't look at this spectacle and shake their heads. So sorry, I won't engage beyond this post telling you why it's not worth it to post on a forum that is dominated by fifth grade insults.

Good riddance. Let's just see how long you can go without adding your 2 cents, which by the way is about what your opinion is worth. Take the other ALPAphiles with you. EVERY OTHER pilot I've talked to, and it's been a lot, have expressed their disgust with ALPA and the wish that their groups would have the balls to do what we did.

ALPA SUX!

 

[Phoenix]

....I won't engage beyond this post telling you why it's not worth it to post...

ok