US Pilots Labor Discussion

[AWA320]

"MR. KATZ:we don't have a modification of our proposal in any respect

AWA320

The quintessential reason for the dawn of USAPA and subsequent victory. Thanks for the 2 million dollar appeal verdict.

You do realize do you not that Katz was your attorney??? We said slot in the west the east kept screaming DOH we gave little more ground and the east came back with DOH. So at that point we gave you the middle finger and off to arbitration we go. Now you think you can breach a contract without major penalty Good luck as I see you failed to heed the warning of the 9th circuit. 'UNDER THE PAIN OF AN UNQUESTIONABLY RIPE CASE" Go ahead, make our day PLEASE!!!

 

[oldiebutgoody]

You do realize do you not that Katz was your attorney??? We said slot in the west the east kept screaming DOH we gave little more ground and the east came back with DOH. So at that point we gave you the middle finger and off to arbitration we go. Now you think you can breach a contract without major penalty Good luck as I see you failed to heed the warning of the 9th circuit. 'UNDER THE PAIN OF AN UNQUESTIONABLY RIPE CASE" Go ahead, make our day PLEASE!!!

WRONG. Katz was ALPA's attorney. So was Freund.

Having a "ripe case" is far different than having a "winning case". Don't worry, as soon as the new contract is ratified you can file away. That is, if you can find a legal team that will take your case, after you "stiff" the one you have now.

 

[AWA320]

Even West Captains married to company EVPs won't be able to make that happen. It sucks that your lottery ticket couldn't be cashed, just like Kirby told you two years ago. If you had listened then you could have saved a couple o' mil.

You are going to be slotted according to the nic so get used to it. Learn something about contract law my man then we can converse on an intellectual level. Right now you are just full of emotion and spouting off about things you know nothing about. I still can't figure out this whole lottery ticket thing but I can figure out the mega million powerball the DOH would be but thats fair right because its only stapling 98% of a group so that has to be fair right?? I mean it has to because the mighty east says so right??? 🙄

I'm all for you east boys breeching the contract as it would make my next move so very easy. Talk to cmd cleary and see if you can push him to force the situation prior to spring. '

How much longer you guys gonna mess around with my profit sharing check?? Hurry up with my money will you 😀 😀 😀

AWA320

 

[sumadarson]

You do realize do you not that Katz was your attorney??? We said slot in the west the east kept screaming DOH we gave little more ground and the east came back with DOH. So at that point we gave you the middle finger and off to arbitration we go. Now you think you can breach a contract without major penalty Good luck as I see you failed to heed the warning of the 9th circuit. 'UNDER THE PAIN OF AN UNQUESTIONABLY RIPE CASE" Go ahead, make our day PLEASE!!!

Very sad to watch. The last PHX update reminded me of your inability to grasp reality. Watch TA in the following video, he seemed very mellow and had trouble with his annunciation of words and perception of the current state of affairs.

Keep trying to spin for contributions, I admire your stance standing in the middle of the little Big Horn.

West Pilots last update, April, 2010

 

[AWA320]

WRONG. Katz was ALPA's attorney. So was Freund.

Having a "ripe case" is far different than having a "winning case". Don't worry, as soon as the new contract is ratified you can file away. That is, if you can find a legal team that will take your case, after you "stiff" the one you have now.

NO they were not ALPA attorneys as that would be a huge conflict of interest. Stop talking about the law now man as you are starting to sound really stupid! Case was won once on the merits and would be again quite easy, make it ripe for me and we can both find out!!!

I have to go to bed man, this is fun and all but I have to fly in the AM to make that hourly wage thats higher than yours 😛 Yeah I know it hurts but its the truth. Talk to cleary and get his tail in gear and also quit messing around with my profit sharing. Oh and best of luck with your snap backs. Checks in the mail

 

[sumadarson]

I have to go to bed man, this is fun and all but I have to fly in the AM to make that hourly wage thats higher than yours 😛 Yeah I know it hurts but its the truth.

America West Pilots wages over the years

 

[oldiebutgoody]

NO they were not ALPA attorneys as that would be a huge conflict of interest. Stop talking about the law now man as you are starting to sound really stupid! Case was won once on the merits and would be again quite easy, make it ripe for me and we can both find out!!!

I have to go to bed man, this is fun and all but I have to fly in the AM to make that hourly wage thats higher than yours 😛 Yeah I know it hurts but its the truth. Talk to cleary and get his tail in gear and also quit messing around with my profit sharing. Oh and best of luck with your snap backs. Checks in the mail

Man, you really are clueless. Who paid those attorneys? In legalese, I rest my case.

You're delusional. That "case" you talk about never happened. It's gone.

The Nic is DEAD. Get over it. Oh, and you'll need that check you keep fretting about to pay that legal bill, because Marty and the Doc aren't USAPA's lawyers,

Get it yet?

 

[Phoenix]

Wye River...

1998, Mid-East Peace Process convened at Wye River and signed a memorandum....
Is it an omen that even Netanyahu and Arafat were able to come to an agreement at Wye River, but USAir Pilots couldn't.

 

[nic4us]

Boy are you in for a rude awakening.

Understatement of the incredibly long almost 1500 reply thread.

We are going to have to get out the white coats with the long arms for some of these east posters when the company tells usapa to go pound sand over the seniority list. Speaking of which, the 9th ruled some time ago, why hasn't usapa gotten section 22 hammered out with the company yet? Why does Cleary have to call the CEO a liar, and be told by corporate legal he is embarassing himself? Answere, because usapa ain't getting DOH.

Lets see, what other lies have been posted recently, that I can reply to.

First, the West did not fire Freund at Wye River. Freund was still retained past usapa's election. As a matter of fact, it was Freund who wrote the first letter telling Bradford and the Company, touch the Nic, we are suing. Also, it was Freund who responded to Seham's childish antics when usapa threatened AWAPPA with a RICO suit. How did that suit turn out for the usapa? What an embarrasment. What happened to that suit, usapa said they were looking into how to proceed when they updated that the 4th tossed their appeal to the dismissal with preudice. I will tell usapa how to proceed, and I bet it is what they do. They shut the f up, and never talk about it again, less they get their clocks cleaned.

Second, the notion that the West can file when there is a new contract. There ain't going to be a contract, unless it contains the Nic, and then the West has nothing to sue over. So, the West likely ain't suing again. Looks like we are going to have money to spare for the potential profit sharing suit. Yep, that is right, try and steal the profit sharing, DFR, money goes to escrow during litigation, and you don't get it either. What, "you think we were born yesterday"?

Third, West is losing support. Yeah, right, the West is just falling all over ourselves to abandon the Nic and let usapa steal our seniority. I know you guys like to make fun of our badge backers. Seen any in PHL and CLT lately.

Finally, the Nic is dead. Really, then why is this thread almost 200 pages long? That and where is the DOH list? not in a contract, not on Doug's desk, not even at the negotiating table? DOH was DOA, while Nic lives, that is what they call a final and binding fact.

 

[Bear96]

Ok, here is some more, and it even more damaging...... "The court also wrongly held that USAPA is bound by the Nicloau Award as the product of ALPA merger policy. ALPA merger policy is an internal union procedure. USAPA cannot be bound by ALPA merger policy, since it is not ALPA......" William Wilder Baptiste and Wilder Do you want some more? Let me know because there is a huge amount of this good stuff!

There sure is - a lot of it written by Judge Wake in his opinion. Funny how you never quote that, which is a lot more relevant than some biased attorney's opinion on a blog.

It is funnier still how you guys seem to ignore that the only court to address the merits of the DFR issue came down soundly against the East.

And it is amazing that you guys really seem to believe that somehow the Ninth Circuit said Wake got the merits of the DFR issue wrong, or that somehow Wake's opinion does not matter because the Ninth Circuit decided the issue is not yet ripe. (Key word: "Yet.")

Oh, wait, I know; Parker said something like, "You guys work it out for youreselves." From the way that quote has been thrown around here, I guess that trumps everything and it means DOH will be implemented next month. 🙄

 

[AWA320]

Man, you really are clueless. Who paid those attorneys? In legalese, I rest my case.

You're delusional. That "case" you talk about never happened. It's gone.

The Nic is DEAD. Get over it. Oh, and you'll need that check you keep fretting about to pay that legal bill, because Marty and the Doc aren't USAPA's lawyers,

Get it yet?

Here we go again with your trying to insert knowledge where you have none!!! The AWA pilots had what is commonly known as a merger fund. We used that fund to pay for our atty and our merger committee!!! Let it go man just let it go, you know nothing about how the process works and nothing about the law. Now I told you before that you are starting to sound stupid, catch the clue and run with that.

NIC IS THE LIST oldie accept that and lets move on...

AWA320

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Here we go again with your trying to insert knowledge where you have none!!! The AWA pilots had what is commonly known as a merger fund. We used that fund to pay for our atty and our merger committee!!! Let it go man just let it go, you know nothing about how the process works and nothing about the law. Now I told you before that you are starting to sound stupid, catch the clue and run with that.

NIC IS THE LIST oldie accept that and lets move on...

AWA320

All administered by ALPA. The East MEC had Katz as a lawyer, the West MEC had Freund. Both paid for by ALPA. There were no other "outside" attorneys involved at the time.
You guys should have kept Freund. He had actually won something for you. Then you fired him when he tried to save you a couple million bucks. Pretty stupid, I'd say.

Your're not firing on all cylinders, dude. You need some rest or something. You're not making sense. But, if it brings in a few more dollars from the sadly misinformed, like yourself, it serves your purpose.

Oh, and the Nic is DEAD, never to be used again!

 

[AvgJoe]

"NIC IS THE LIST oldie accept that and lets move on..."

- AWA320

Weather the Nic is the list or not is borderline moot at this point. Let's say for sake of argument that in six months (optimistic) the judge rules that the company must use the Nic and the company puts it's foot down with the union. Now the union drags it's feet in negotiation by quibbling and making scheduling difficult. Eventually the mediator threatens to release the company to self-help, at which point the union gives in and negotiates in good faith, and a TA is formed. TA is voted on, which takes a couple more months, and is voted down due not only to the Nic, but other poison pills agreed to by the union.

Question: How many years will this take?

In the end, attrition will render the Nic largely impotent.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

"NIC IS THE LIST oldie accept that and lets move on..."

- AWA320

Weather the Nic is the list or not is borderline moot at this point. Let's say for sake of argument that in six months (optimistic) the judge rules that the company must use the Nic and the company puts it's foot down with the union. Now the union drags it's feet in negotiation by quibbling and making scheduling difficult. Eventually the mediator threatens to release the company to self-help, at which point the union gives in and negotiates in good faith, and a TA is formed. TA is voted on, which takes a couple more months, and is voted down due not only to the Nic, but other poison pills agreed to by the union.

Question: How many years will this take?

In the end, attrition will render the Nic largely impotent.

Very good points. The court cannot "impose" the Nic since it's use requires a ratified contract. The company AND the Ninth circuit have BOTH admitted publicly that the east, which remains the majority, will NEVER ratify a contract that contains it. Therefore, I cannot see Judge Silver rulng any way other than that USAPA can negotiate the contract, including seniority, per the RLA, or dismiss the case, since the district court really has little jurisdiction in an RLA case. No matter what she rules, other than a dismissal, this case is again going to the ninth. We've seen a glimpse of what is coming when they get it again. That's why the only conclusion to come to is that the JD case brought about by the company is a frivolous action meant ONLY to stretch this thing out as long as possible.

 

[Phoenix]

All administered by ALPA. The East MEC had Katz as a lawyer, the West MEC had Freund. Both paid for by ALPA. There were no other "outside" attorneys involved at the time.
You guys should have kept Freund. He had actually won something for you. Then you fired him when he tried to save you a couple million bucks. Pretty stupid, I'd say.

Your're not firing on all cylinders, dude. You need some rest or something. You're not making sense. But, if it brings in a few more dollars from the sadly misinformed, like yourself, it serves your purpose.

Oh, and the Nic is DEAD, never to be used again!

Things that make you go hmmmm... I'm wondering if the Goat Shoap Video creator has ever joined us on this message board.