US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Pi brat]

PRINCIPAL! At this point the money is second. The line is in the sand. This is the opinion of the 10-15 pilots in the top100 that I've talked to.

No west pilots have answered that question of mine. I'd like to know why they think the senior east pilots act like they do.

 

[mikey60]

It was bottom B737 on both coasts FYI.

You are right, we did get a nice pay raise because ALPA insisted on pay parity.

Under the same scenarion, if PHX were to close, under a DOH list, most West Captains couldn't hold the same seat back East. Many being junior to pilots that were unemployed prior to the merger.

PI-This isn't about commuting. It's about whats fair and equitable to BOTH sides, and apparently the courts will be the final arbiter.

PSA

When did PSA have 737's Ionly remember m80 and bae?

 

[AvgJoe]

Hey Joe...

I was just thinking the same thing... let them have their precious NIC... but pay is based on DOH... Viola... problem solved!

Works for me!

 

[mikey60]

Have you forgotten what I've maintained all along? I think relative position, with minimum C&R's primarily for fleet differences, is the fair way to do it. The day after the merger everybody has the seniority to hold what they did the day before the merger. In other words Nic got it basically right while Kagel gave the "North" the benefits of the rapid "South" growth and saddled the "South" with the disadvantage of the sluggish "North" growth. And look at all the C&R's Kagel put in attempting to even things up, with really only one of them doing the "South" any good thanks largely to imaginative interpretation by the "North" merger committee and company acting in unison.

Jim

Stop your killing me! sluggish growth? Both of these companies were growing fast. Both were fine alone. The monkey wrench was TWA was about to put a bid on PI

AL thought this would put to much pressure on it's operation and out bid TWA. If I remember it correctly the PI list sent me from a mid DC-9 c/o blockholder to a

low reserve DC-9 reserve. Several PI pilots quit because " it was to much for them" short for "I didn't get what I wanted".

 

[mikey60]

Yeah, bottom C/O or top F/O. Was that bottom BAE 146 C/O to Bottom 73/Dc-9/MD-80 C/O? What was that pay difference? I really can't remember and maybe I'm wrong. How about after the west coast bases closed and for years you occupied the C/O seat some us might have had? The demographics changed forever? It did change for a LONG time since all we had left of PSA was some very senior pilots, intergrated by DOH. How did I get my C/O seat back on a shrinking airline then? Here's a clue, some didn't stay to 60 and beyond, that would be attrition. But hey, if it shortens your commute, by all means.

PI

The PSA people took 75% of the Intl and 757 domestic flying and held it for years, but thats the nature of the beast that we live with. The pay doubled for the

for the bae people and the md-80 got about a 50% pay raise. The best merger was PI , Everybody bitched for a while and then we were one.

 

[Pi brat]

PI

The PSA people took 75% of the Intl and 757 domestic flying and held it for years, but thats the nature of the beast that we live with. The pay doubled for the

for the bae people and the md-80 got about a 50% pay raise. The best merger was PI , Everybody bitched for a while and then we were one.

Yeah, but some of them now say "Let them eat cake!"

 

[N924PS]

PSA

When did PSA have 737's Ionly remember m80 and bae?

USAir took all the Super 80's East and replaced them with 737-300/400's.

 

[Pi brat]

USAir took all the Super 80's East and replaced them with 737-300/400's.

So you were at the seniority level to hold MD80 prior to the US merger? If so you are not who I thought you were because he, and many others, told me that he could only hold the BAE146 captain and by coming east could hold a block on the Boeing(maybe very bottom Md80 capt). My apologies if I put you in the wrong range.

 

[luvthe9]

Great question!

If Nicolau had applied similar ratios by equipment, I think I would be within 10% of where I have been since 4-9-88.

You will never be #1 in PHX "Mr. my money is on Doug Parker" NEVER!!!!!!

 

[N924PS]

So you were at the seniority level to hold MD80 prior to the US merger? If so you are not who I thought you were because he, and many others, told me that he could only hold the BAE146 captain and by coming east could hold a block on the Boeing. My apologies if I put you in the wrong range.

Prior to the merger I could hold senior F/O DC9 LAX or SFO. SAN was a satellite base of LAX ( about 40 lines). Or I could have been a reserve BAE146 Captain in SFO/LAX.

After the merger USAir re-established and staffed for a full SAN crew base. Because of the training float and additional manning for the SAN base, I was the able to hold the B737 as a Reserve Captain in LAX. Which is where I stayed until displaced to PIT B737, bottom block.

Hope this hopes you refine my holdover time.

 

[Pi brat]

Prior to the merger I could hold senior F/O DC9 LAX or SFO. SAN was a satellite base of LAX ( about 40 lines). Or I could have been a reserve BAE146 Captain in SFO/LAX.

After the merger USAir re-established and staffed for a full SAN crew base. Because of the training float and additional manning for the SAN base, I was the able to hold the B737 as a Reserve Captain in LAX. Which is where I stayed until displaced to PIT B737, bottom block.

Hope this hopes you refine my holdover time.

Hmmm.....that's a little different that what you first said. I will copy and paste here for you:

"If you will review previous posts of mine, you will find that my PSA seniority bought me the same job I could have held pre-merger. That was senior F/O or junior Captain."

So actually, you went from senior F/O to blockholder captain, missing all that great reserve stuff(it wasn't even as bad then as it is now). Let me know if you want me to fill you in on what you missed. Sounds like a windfall to me. Maybe that is why some PS pilots want to the help those senior west F/Os do the same thing in the east.

I say again, the west pilot slotted right in front of me has never been, and is not now a captain, but if we flipped the switch tomorrow could be A320 C/O, 737C/O, EMB C/O, A330 F/O, or 7I F/O, all higher paying positions(even at loa93 rates!) than what he can hold today. Just like PSA! Must be a west thing.

 

[N924PS]

You will never be #1 in PHX "Mr. my money is on Doug Parker" NEVER!!!!!!

Considering the content of most of your posts, it's gratifying to see you finally got one right!

 

[N924PS]

Hmmm.....that's a little different that what you first said. I will copy and paste here for you:

"If you will review previous posts of mine, you will find that my PSA seniority bought me the same job I could have held pre-merger. That was senior F/O or junior Captain."

So actually, you went from senior F/O to blockholder captain, missing all that great reserve stuff(it wasn't even as bad then as it is now). Let me know if you want me to fill you in on what you missed. Sounds like a windfall to me, but now you don't even support the guys that you kept out of that seat.

Well, if you want to play this game, how many former Empire pilots did you jump when PI didn't give them DOH?

 

[Pi brat]

Well, if you want to play this game, how many former Empire pilots did you jump when PI didn't give them DOH?

BRRRR......junior to all of them, try again. Another airline that we have nothing left of except for their pilots that are senior to me in CLT!

 

[767jetz]

I sure you did , but did you know you guys are the AWA to CAL (just not wanted). I had know idea how they despised you guys till I had a few CAL jumpseaters.

Well, luckily it really doesn't matter who despises whom. As long as the Negotiating committee and the merger committee continue to work together making progress, and everyone keeps their agreements and honors binding arbitration (when and if it comes to that), then the rest is irrelevant.

I haven't run into one bad, confrontational, or otherwise disgruntled or bitter CO crew yet. And I've met many. I make it a point to seek them out every time I'm in EWR, DEN, or ORD. I'm sure there are some out there, just like on the UA side. But as I said, it's irrelevant. (Much like USAPA )