US Pilots Labor Discussion

[traderjake]

http://openjurist.org/981/f2d/1524/rakestraw-v-united-airlines-inc

"The statutory duty of fair representation was developed [decades] ago." Vaca v. Sipes, 386 U.S. 171, 177, 87 S.Ct. 903, 17 L.Ed.2d 842 (1967). "[A] union breaches [this] duty... when its conduct toward a member of the bargaining unit is arbitrary, discriminatory, or in bad faith." Marquez v. Screen Actors Guild, Inc., 525 U.S. 33, 44, 119 S.Ct. 292, 142 L.Ed.2d 242 (1998).

Put differently, a breach occurs when a union fails to "serve the interests of all members without hostility or discrimination toward any, [] exercise its discretion with complete good faith and honesty, [or] avoid arbitrary conduct." Vaca, 386 U.S. at 177, 87 S.Ct. 903.

"[A] union may not, without a legitimate purpose, take action favoring some of its members at the expense of others." Teamsters Local Union No. 42 v. NLRB, 825 F.2d 608, 611 (1st Cir.1987) (citing Laborers and Hod Carriers Local No. 341 v. NLRB, 564 F.2d 834, 840 (9th Cir.1977); Barton Brands, Ltd. v. NLRB, 529 F.2d 793, 800 (7th Cir.1976)).

Additionally, "a union violates [its duty] when it causes an employer to discriminate against employees on arbitrary, hostile, or bad faith grounds." Barton Brands, 529 F.2d at 799.

Barton Brands holds that a union may not juggle the seniority roster for no reason other than to advance one group of employees over another. The change must rationally promote the aggregate welfare of employees in the bargaining unit. 529 F.2d at 800

So much for the "internal union affairs" argument.

 

[nic4us]

And right after that the 9th will smoke one right up your tailpipe. Keep the donations coming!

By the 9th, do you mean when usapa appeals any ruling from Judge Silver?

If so, why so certain usapa is going to lose and need to appeal?

Me thinks usapa is running out of options.

Ya know, the NMB is going to tire of the we can force seperate ops and run the West out of money tactic. Especially when the West just keeps the donations coming. BTW, just a highlight for ya, it cost each West pilot about the value of 2 crew meals a month to tell usapa to shove their DOH list. Negotiate that.

Oh, one more thing, the NMB did not give single carrier status so that the east pilots could play games with union representation for self-serving motives. Time to do a gut check!!

 

[luvthe9]

By the 9th, do you mean when usapa appeals any ruling from Judge Silver?

If so, why so certain usapa is going to lose and need to appeal?

Me thinks usapa is running out of options.

Ya know, the NMB is going to tire of the we can force seperate ops and run the West out of money tactic. Especially when the West just keeps the donations coming. BTW, just a highlight for ya, it cost each West pilot about the value of 2 crew meals a month to tell usapa to shove their DOH list. Negotiate that.

Oh, one more thing, the NMB did not give single carrier status so that the east pilots could play games with union representation for self-serving motives. Time to do a gut check!!

This is just a time killer for the company. There is no way the esteemed judge will say the Nic has to be in it. Remember what happened when it went to the 9th after Wake? Right, you got the 9th to give us all a very clear statement the Nic was not required. Yes, there can not be harm, but lets be serious. What really constitutes harm to one entity not necessarily means harm to another. Take your best shot.

 

[traderjake]

Barton Brands holds that a union may not juggle the seniority roster for no reason other than to advance one group of employees over another. The change must rationally promote the aggregate welfare of employees in the bargaining unit. 529 F.2d at 800


The courts, in all probability, are not going to let USAPA juggle the seniority list.

 

[Phoenix]

Thanks for admitting in writting what your actions demonstrate.

Nothing is universally immoral for you.

I'll remember not to turn my back on you.

Even the least observant person has noticed that DOH is the moral code from which all deviation originated. 😀

 

[luvn737s]

Well, the biggest victory was the 9th coming out (thanks to the west filing Addington) and saying very clearly the Nicolau does not necessarily have to be the end all you claim it is. That, is the biggest victory of all.

Who told you that? C'mon fess up, give us a name. He/she should be ashamed of themselves deluding you that way.

What the 9th said is that there is no such thing as Intent to DFR. That's all. When they actually implement their nefarious plan through contract ratification (or perhaps merely presenting it for ratification) then the intent will have come to full bloom and AOL can fire up the thresher.

C'mon Cleary, send us a contract. The combine is hungry!!

 

[luvn737s]

All efforts should be directed at replacing USAPA rather than wasting time in the courts. The apathy of the pilots and their willingness to be bled dry by USAPA proves that they are actually overpaid. Easy come - easy go.

 

[767jetz]

Why do you have to constantly affix a battle to every issue with the east? We looked at PBS. It sucks, our system is better. Just because you guys have a crappy system is not our problem. It is that simple. There is no hill and there is no dying.

Jeeeeezzzz... Look in the mirror dude! Try to take things in context.

I said that PBS is not great. Once again... I'm only contending the notion that there is no other way, hence f/a's and pilots must continue to be paired together. Someone else said it was in stone. I say fine. So be it. But your management wants PBS badly (ie: cost savings) so you can be sure that if they don't get it, they will want to negotiate something else of value away. Contract negotiations are like that. There is always some give and take. At some point the pilots have to decide what is a deal breaker and what isn't. That is the "hill to die on" analogy, or more accurately something you would/would not strike over. Most people wouldn't strike over a crew meal, but would strike over a scope issue. My guess is that PBS falls somewhere in between the two.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Please tell all your divorced friends and relatives how you really feel about them the next time you see them. And don't forget to include any divorced West pilots you fly with.

And I suppose we have to include everyone who has ever filed bankruptcy to break out of contractual agreements. This includes AWA and USA.

So, in Callaway's book, bankruptcy has got to be immoral, too.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Barton Brands holds that a union may not juggle the seniority roster for no reason other than to advance one group of employees over another. The change must rationally promote the aggregate welfare of employees in the bargaining unit. 529 F.2d at 800


The courts, in all probability, are not going to let USAPA juggle the seniority list.

Actually, the courts, in particular the Supreme Court, has held that merging by DOH is not arbitrary. Hence, it would be difficult to argue DOH as "juggling"....unless you want to throw another $2 million down the crapper. But, be my guest. The west group has shown no propensity for smarts thus far.

 

[exB717Flyer]

I was just reading USAPA's manifesto addressing every line and punctuation mark in the Leonidas mailing. Don't care what's in it but I must say it must've struck a nerve for USAPA to feel the need to (attempt to) refute it so strongly. This is a good sign since it means they actually read it. Look for the next installment in your mailboxes soon. And learn something.

 

[mikey60]

PI pilots lost their Captains positons in CLT and BWI when the airline shrunk after the merger and a few months later when the airline reversed and expanded USAir F/Os got those positions. PI Captains did lose their seats USAir F/Os.

Your assertion that USAir saved PI from being bought by TWA is crazy. If anything USAir paid Norfork Southern twice what Piedmont was worth to prevent being bought themselves.

 

[mikey60]

PI pilots lost their Captains positons in CLT and BWI when the airline shrunk after the merger and a few months later when the airline reversed and expanded USAir F/Os got those positions. PI Captains did lose their seats USAir F/Os.

Your assertion that USAir saved PI from being bought by TWA is crazy. If anything USAir paid Norfork Southern twice what Piedmont was worth to prevent being bought themselves.

Once again like so many times in the past your WRONG.

 

[luvthe9]

I was just reading USAPA's manifesto addressing every line and punctuation mark in the Leonidas mailing. Don't care what's in it but I must say it must've struck a nerve for USAPA to feel the need to (attempt to) refute it so strongly. This is a good sign since it means they actually read it. Look for the next installment in your mailboxes soon. And learn something.

Sure ,we all read it was the biggest piece of fictionI have ever seen all B.S., but you guys keep those donations coming. P.S. I did get a few laughs out of it, thanks.

 

[mikey60]

Warned of what exactly? You guys have been told time and again you're on a fools errand. The Jury conviction in less than 2 hrs is kind of an indicator don't you think?

jury.... what jury?