US Pilots Labor Discussion

[N924PS]

The NMB will release the pilots for self help long before the appeal of the company is decided in USAPA's favor.

9th circuit court of appeals

Typically, a strike vote is taken at some point prior to self help. What message do you think the company will get from anything less than a 90% or better vote?

Pilots will strike for less than an "industry standard" contract, but striking for Section 22 alone is stupid.

But I'm sure many of the pathological narcissists (aka the "Mean Girls") will do just that.

 

[crazystnic]

Many (myself included) were furloughed at the time of the merger at our own choice.
I chose to come back at the last possible option.
I had been running a business since 2002. When they said I had to come back, I came back.

I've also had 12 years active at the time. and your notion that those 12 years mean squat, I don't by...

Former

rEAL.... and battle star pinned... so get over it..

The NIC Is BS and it's Dead.

 

[AWA320]

Many (myself included) were furloughed at the time of the merger at our own choice.

Ahhh yes someone who brought nothing to the merger but a fulough number. Your words not mine!!!

The NIC Is BS and it's Dead.

Tell us all how so cause I wanna know how it died and if you just saying so really makes it true. If you can do that then please say I get laid by Halle Berry TONIGHT cause I want that to come true as well!!!

AWA320

 

[Black Swan]

Tell me please how you really think this is going to end??? The one case was dismissed on ripeness ONLY!!!!! Tell me so I know when does it become ripe?? The minute you are able to trick LCC into a cram down contract with DOH in it after they and YOU signed a transition agreement?? I am really interested in how you get around the arbitration because unless you do that you can not get to where you hope to go.

Please allow me to help as this comes from my family UNIVERSITY OF DETROIT SCHOOL OF LAW CLASS OF 77!!


How can one go about overturning binding arbitration?

It is almost impossible to overturn a binding arbitration. I heard of one lately, but that is the only time.

It would be easier to attack being forced to go to binding arbitration than the award, although you could argue against the award as a seconday point.

You could also argue that the arbitrator was not neutral. To do this you would have to have specific instances as well as a pattern of this behavior on their part.

Good luck! Binding arbitration can awful.

Thank you for allowing me to assist you.

" While the judge correctly concluded that USAPA is the successor to ALPA s collective bargaining agent, that in NO WAY restricts USAPA from negotiating ANY AND ALL terms of that agreement, INCLUDING THE NICOLAU AWARD........." William Wilder, Baptiste and Wilder

 

[cactusboy53]

Many (myself included) were furloughed at the time of the merger at our own choice.
I chose to come back at the last possible option.
I had been running a business since 2002. When they said I had to come back, I came back.

I've also had 12 years active at the time. and your notion that those 12 years mean squat, I don't by...

Former

rEAL.... and battle star pinned... so get over it..

The NIC Is BS and it's Dead.

What does "furloughed at the time of the merger at our own choice" mean? Did you mean to say that you were on a voluntary leave of absence? The term "furlough" pertains to a person that was temporarily excused from work because of a reduction in force (in this case the former US Air). I was furloughed for a seven months after 9/11 as a reduction in force. I chose to come back at the first recall.

If in fact you were furloughed at the time of the announcement, then you returned to the new and improved US Airways. This new company has a new stock symbol and opening stock price. The former AAA symbol is GONE (just like the former AWA stock symbol). It's not that we don't "buy" the value of your 12 years. Your AAA merger team should have argued for some sort of length of service (if that is what you wanted). Instead, your AAA merger team was told to pound their fists on the table like Nikita Kruschev demanding it be "date of hire or nothing at all".

PS "Nic" is not dead. He's alive and well. George Nicolau is a respected arbitrator & attorney. Mr. Nicolau is also a decorated WWII veteran. He is educated, and educator and he is published. Just because the 1/2 to 2/3 of the former AAA group disputes the list (and pitch an national hissy-fit), does NOT make it wrong or Mr. Nicolau a "senile old man". Pick up one of his books or read this: http://www.nmb.gov/arbitrator-resumes/nicolau-george-gn_res.pdf (you might just learn something yourself)

 

[Phoenix]

Swan,

It was not decided, that is the problem. Further, the 9th did not say "the Nic does not necessarily have to be the solution". They said, "We leave usapa to bargain in good faith for all pilots, east and West.....yada yada yada....even if that ..yada yada..is not the Nicolau award".

What that paragraph is saying is that if usapa does not use the Nic, they had better come up with something that the West will not sue them over, and at very least their only defense if the West does sue is, it had better be both in good faith, and it had better have a legitimate union objective, otherwise, lose "unquestionably ripe DFR".

We all know why usapa was founded, why the C&BLs say what they say, why it is not in good faith, why it is not a legitimate union objective to promote the junior majority at the more senior minority's expense, etc. etc.. AOL still has usapa's smoking gun, and you will lose any future litigation.

We also know that AOL has informed both the company and usapa that if either touches the Nic, they will be sued. usapa does not care, the company however does, because they know along with the 9th, that usapa is going to lose, and lose very big.

Judge Silver may very well dismiss. Parker has already said the company would appeal. This may be far from over, but when it finally ends, it will be the Nic. That is why they call it binding arbitration. Since you like the Baptiste guys so much, just go ask them if they have ever heard of an arbitrated decision being tossed, without the consent of both parties. The West is not consenting, the Nic, unmodified, to its terms.

For the umpteenth time, you are not getting DOH, and yes I yada yada-ed the 9th circuits ridiculous ruling.

"Internal Union Dispute." 9th Circuit.

"Wide range of reasonableness." SCOTUS.

"When it finally ends, it will be the Nic." Nic4US.

 

[crazystnic]

HA HA,,
Look at the rats scurry out of the gutter.
You could bypass ont the EAST as long as there was someone junior to you to pass the recall to.

the bottom line, but you guys don't listen well is...

that we had the attrition to come back to... that was the carrot that NIC screwed up...

if it wasn't for all the attriton coming to the east I would have agreed with the NIC.

but not as it is

 

[mikey60]

Pilots below you is like runway behind you and airspace above you.

Don't forget a girl in another city.... or alpa as your union.

 

[AWA320]

" While the judge correctly concluded that USAPA is the successor to ALPA s collective bargaining agent, that in NO WAY restricts USAPA from negotiating ANY AND ALL terms of that agreement, INCLUDING THE NICOLAU AWARD........." William Wilder, Baptiste and Wilder

I am really trying my very best to give you the benefit of the doubt. YES usapa is the successor usapa is not restricted from negotiating with LCC. I know for a fact that you are leaving out the rest of his statement and so do you! Dont do yourself an injustice, be true to thy self! State the rest of his comment...

While we wait for you to print the rest of his statement, lets discuss what we do know. One, we went to final and binding arbitration as agreed by all parties in the transition agreement (its this document by the way that will ultimatly end your case) Two, there has been no attempt to overturn the arbitration and absent that LCC will not violate the TA unless a court of law states that they would be immune from law suites. Three, getting that arbitration overturned is next to impossible and again absent that you no true legal ground in which to stand. LCC knows this but they want a court to tell you that fact. The list is going to be the NIC you can bank on that fact. Now you can kick hollar and scream but that wont change a thing and actually it would serve to further bring harm to the east.

The east is setting a really bad precedent by not honoring the arbitration. What happens if LCC stops honoring arbitrations and forces everything to court??? This is a reallly bad move...

AWA320

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Typically, a strike vote is taken at some point prior to self help. What message do you think the company will get from anything less than a 90% or better vote?

Pilots will strike for less than an "industry standard" contract, but striking for Section 22 alone is stupid.

But I'm sure many of the pathological narcissists (aka the "Mean Girls") will do just that.

Just wanted to get you up to date, the party has alot of takers and your buddy Johnny G. from SAN said he could even supply musical entertainment, we'll let ya know how it was!MM!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Tell me please how you really think this is going to end??? The one case was dismissed on ripeness ONLY!!!!! Tell me so I know when does it become ripe?? The minute you are able to trick LCC into a cram down contract with DOH in it after they and YOU signed a transition agreement?? I am really interested in how you get around the arbitration because unless you do that you can not get to where you hope to go.

Please allow me to help as this comes from my family UNIVERSITY OF DETROIT SCHOOL OF LAW CLASS OF 77!!


How can one go about overturning binding arbitration?

It is almost impossible to overturn a binding arbitration. I heard of one lately, but that is the only time.

It would be easier to attack being forced to go to binding arbitration than the award, although you could argue against the award as a seconday point.

You could also argue that the arbitrator was not neutral. To do this you would have to have specific instances as well as a pattern of this behavior on their part.

Good luck! Binding arbitration can awful.

Thank you for allowing me to assist you.

Wow and they didn't tell you the case wasn't ripe either! Well if ya spend 2 mill you can surely learn alot, LEE SEHAM , USAPA counsel!

 

[LSS]

WRONG!!! Do you have any legal background at all or are you just emotionally guessing???? When you go to the court of appeals it goes one of two ways, they either affirm or deny. If they affirm then it ends with them. If they deny then it goes back to the district court.

AWA320

Hummmm.... I think you're the one who NEEDS TO THINK FOR A CHANGE!!! You are 100% wrong on this... If the appeal is won, as in the case of Addington... it is remanded back to the Circuit court with an order to DISMISS!... If the appeal is not won... then the Appellant is toast and the District Court's ruling stands!

 

[AWA320]

Hummmm.... I think you're the one who NEEDS TO THINK FOR A CHANGE!!! You are 100% wrong on this... If the appeal is won, as in the case of Addington... it is remanded back to the Circuit court with an order to DISMISS!... If the appeal is not won... then the Appellant is toast and the District Court's ruling stands!

That makes no sense at all!! Go back and re-read what I said and this time try to take the emotion out of it. BTW what law school are you a graduate of????????

AWA320

 

[AWA320]

Wow and they didn't tell you the case wasn't ripe either! Well if ya spend 2 mill you can surely learn alot, LEE SEHAM , USAPA counsel!

Hmmmm has Good ol Lee told you how he gets you out of that arbitration?? Me thinks not! Know why??? Cause he cant!! Now like I said before absent that arbitration being overturned you havent a legal leg to stand on. Trust and believe that LCC will not allow you to have them swinging in the breeze over this. They have done the risk assessment and know that a realignment of a list and payment to those effected would bury LCC for good!

AWA320

 

[LSS]

That makes no sense at all!! Go back and re-read what I said and this time try to take the emotion out of it. BTW what law school are you a graduate of????????

AWA320

Sorry dude, but you're the one with your panties in a wad... and while you're at it genius... where did you obtain your law degree?