US Pilots Labor Discussion

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Does anybody have the decoder ring?

Did you lose yours from your 40-WATT membership initiation? MM!

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Doug also said that he often says things that aren't true, for effect. Funny how you hang on Doug's every word when it suits your argument. Get a copy of that letter and you can be SURE that DOH does not fit the 5 criteria. You can also be SURE that he did accept the Nic.

Straight DOH doesn't, but DOH with C&R does. Count on it.

I understand the concept of his saying things for effect. Sometimes children and other challenged individuals have trouble with advanced concepts of communication. When he tells you straight out that another list can meet the company criteria, and that he is legally obligated to deal with the Pilots' bargaining agent, he isn't speaking for effect.

Most adults of normal intelligence and education can differentiate between something said for effect from something said as a matter of fact.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Freund and Katz were each hired by respective west and east Merger Committees with Merger Fund Committee funds provided by the respective pilot groups. They were the attorneys for each PILOT GROUP.

Yes, each MEC. Why do you have such difficulty with such simple concepts? You can bet that BOTH legal teams received checks signed by an officer of ALPA.

Why do you think the company gave each MEC $300,000, just because they liked them? No, it was to pay for the cost of the process, including the lawyers.

 

[crazystnic]

Very sad to watch. The last PHX update reminded me of your inability to grasp reality.
We grasp the reality that Parker ACCEPTED the Nicolau list IN WRITING and paid each MEC $300,000.00 upon completion and acceptance of said list. That is the REALITY that Parker is fully aware of and the REALITY that the eastholes refuse to accept.

********************************************

yeah and we grasp the reality that you have to have a joint contract with the nic for it to be implemented. So save your hot air..
because that will never happen. Even Parker and Kirby are clear on that.

 

[crazystnic]

Your correct we don't care enjoy YOUR attrition! MM That last statement kills me maybe it's that 2MILL buyers remorse thing!
1
threat, either, because the Company is not participating in making the seniority proposal.
Furthermore, there is no evidence of any Company participation, plan, or scheme to commit a
joint DFR. Its mere acceptance of a ratifiable seniority proposal will not create liability.10
Indeed, since the Company itself has alleged that it cannot be liable on a collusion theory (Doc.
1, ¶ 58), it should be estopped from making this inconsistent assertion.
Even if the Company were deemed to have “colluded” by accepting USAPA’s seniority
integration proposal, date of hire has a long history of being affirmed in DFR challenges.11 And
even then, where an agreed-to arbitration process has purportedly resolved a seniority
integration dispute, a union still retains the right to negotiate an alternative outcome. Associated
Transp., Inc., 185 NLRB 631, 635 (1970).
Irrespective of the potential merits of future claims by the co-defendants, mere threats of
future litigation – or mere history of past litigation – are not sufficient to create a justiciable
controversy. Md. Cas. Co., 312 U.S. at 273. The Company points to the vacated jury verdict in
Addington to support its contention that the “risk of such a lawsuit is not idle speculation.”
(Resp. 12:4). But the jury’s verdict in Addington does not substantiate any future litigation
threat against the Company, since the Company was dismissed from that case six months prior
to trial, and the Addington plaintiffs pointedly declined to pursue any claims against the
Company

 

[crazystnic]

Well Said MM!

I'm not so convinced that DFR 2 will be a success. I think the desert judge really let a lot of stuff go on in his court room...

IF we go DOH and we have conditions and restriction to protect the west, and if the JURY is ALLOWED to here it all.

I think we are fine, and either way it will be in my estimation... at least 4 years before that all happens.

In the mean time..

enjoy the upgrades and the pay raises and the better schedules..

remember it's not all about the money...

I'm a quality of life guy here.

 

[Black Swan]

Actually, a 50+1 vote would probably be MORE devastating to the company than if 100% went out. If the company were to have to guess which flights to operate, it could and likely would be VERY expensive for them, especially if customers started booking away due to the uncertainty. Many of those customers would NEVER be back. NO, I would expect the company to do a "lockout" and cancel the entire system. More predictable, allowing a better cost control for them. They could call it a "force majeure", since there is really no definition of what that is, and not pay anybody except management. Another thing they will do is try to time any job action to have a minimal effect on profits, say winter or fall.

The Pilots should get the FAs to help organize their "job action". The last FA action was the only really successful one on this property since I've been here, and that's a long time.

Remember, we are aligned with the teamsters. They won't even be able to get the jet gassed up even if they want to fly it 😀

 

[nic4us]

Well why don't you read it? It would be a good start! MM!

Mission accomplished. They are seeking sanctions.

What happened? Did usapa stiff Seham for that improper over the page limit filing and he wants to be paid anyway.

Bye Bye SSM&P.

 

[doh nogo]

You and the three or four Nic lovers on here are the dense ones.

Just 3 or 4? Are you sure about that?

Let's see... luvn737s, aquagreen73s, cleardirect, nic4us, Metroyet, Ames, cactusboy53, CallawayGolf, Freebird, traderjake, flyinawa, exB717Flyer, Bear96, BoeingBoy, N924PS, AWA320, 767jetz, me...

That's 18 right off the top of my head.

We think we've got it down pretty well. Here's your summary: We are right. Nic will be the list at some point. DOH is a pipe dream as well as avoiding arbitration. If DFR II ever happens you will lose. Damages trial will follow. We will never give in. You will live with LOA93 for the rest of your career if you choose. OH! And MOST IMPORTANTLY... debating it with you and your circle jerk buddies is a waste of energy.

When the courts eventually put an end to this, we'll all have more to actually discuss. And speaking of ignoring stupidity, have you noticed how many people are ignoring you guys lately?

 

[Black Swan]

Has something changed in the last few days?

The west is not going anywhere. Loenidas is still firmly and unwaveringly supported by the west. We are still waiting for the judge to rule on the motion to dismiss. Even if that happens the company will appeal. Nothing changes. If that is denied then the company still has to make a choice to use the agreed to Nicolau or risk being involved in a DFR.

Believe what you want but the west is firmly behind leonidas and the implementation of the arbitration.

Maybe you misread the name. I think it is USAPA that is taking on water fast.

Oh boy, I'm sure the company is afraid of a leonidas DFR. As far as Leonidas suing, again? The end result will be like you guys taking a dump in a fan in R.

 

[nic4us]

Well why don't you read it? It would be a good start! MM!

Mission accomplished. They are seeking sanctions.

What happened? Did usapa stiff Seham for that improper over the page limit filing and he wants to be paid anyway.

Bye Bye SSM&P.

 

[Black Swan]

Well Said MM!

I'm not so convinced that DFR 2 will be a success. I think the desert judge really let a lot of stuff go on in his court room...

IF we go DOH and we have conditions and restriction to protect the west, and if the JURY is ALLOWED to here it all.

I think we are fine, and either way it will be in my estimation... at least 4 years before that all happens.

In the mean time..

enjoy the upgrades and the pay raises and the better schedules..

remember it's not all about the money...

I'm a quality of life guy here.

"This decision presents a restraint on the ability of union’s to negotiate. And the judge’s holding that plaintiffs may sue over bargaining proposals, not actual agreements, presents the danger that collective bargaining, particularly during unpopular events such as concessionary negotiations, will be bogged down in lawsuits ginned up by plaintiff’s lawyers who, as the court described the plaintiffs’ lawyers here, misstate law and facts.

The decision reads like this case became a hobby for the judge. An explanation for this seemingly inexplicable award comes from the judge’s harsh criticism of USAPA’s attorneys, the law firm of Seham, Seham, Meltz & Peterson:"Baptiste and Wilder RLA blog...... Note- the case became a hobby for the judge! That is why it had the outcome it did. And the end result is that Wake got SLAMMED. Fear not another trial from Leonidas. This was a once in a lifetime meeting of inept Leonidas counsel and a right wing nut job judge out for a unions' hide.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Just 3 or 4? Are you sure about that?

Let's see... luvn737s, aquagreen73s, cleardirect, nic4us, Metroyet, Ames, cactusboy53, CallawayGolf, Freebird, traderjake, flyinawa, exB717Flyer, Bear96, BoeingBoy, N924PS, AWA320, 767jetz, me...

That's 18 right off the top of my head.

We think we've got it down pretty well. Here's your summary: We are right. Nic will be the list at some point. DOH is a pipe dream as well as avoiding arbitration. If DFR II ever happens you will lose. Damages trial will follow. We will never give in. You will live with LOA93 for the rest of your career if you choose. OH! And MOST IMPORTANTLY... debating it with you and your circle jerk buddies is a waste of energy.

When the courts eventually put an end to this, we'll all have more to actually discuss. And speaking of ignoring stupidity, have you noticed how many people are ignoring you guys lately?

Hmmm... 18, the West side's favorite number. Haven't seen them all here lately, though. And all seem to have some difficulty grasping advanced concepts, like the fact that THE NIC IS STILL DEAD!

The good news, though, is that Mr. Parker and Mr. Kirby have a firm grasp on the situation.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Mission accomplished. They are seeking sanctions.

What happened? Did usapa stiff Seham for that improper over the page limit filing and he wants to be paid anyway.

Bye Bye SSM&P.

Please enlighten us. Who is seeking what against whom? Don't worry, Mr. Seham, esq, et al do not need to be concerned about getting paid. They're well worth every penny.

I'd buy a badge backer to pay for them. Oh, wait, I don't have to. OUR dues is paying them.

 

[sumadarson]

Please enlighten us. Who is seeking what against whom? Don't worry, Mr. Seham, esq, et al do not need to be concerned about getting paid. They're well worth every penny.

I'd buy a badge backer to pay for them. Oh, wait, I don't have to. OUR dues is paying them.

Badge Backers

Some do on the West.

How come Mitch started to contribute so late and John Mac your former ALPA leaders?

How many pilots does the West have? The list seems short of the amount of West pilots.