US Pilots Labor Discussion

[BoeingBoy]

No, it was nothing of the sort. This is the kind of post that loses your cause support. Did you read what I posted?

Read what he said again - "many East pilots", not all by any means. On a different topic, I didn't thank Bebee was MEC chair as late as 2004, but that may be just bad memory.

Jim

 

[isvlives2]

No, it was nothing of the sort. This is the kind of post that loses your cause support. Did you read what I posted?

Yes I read it and perhaps didn't understand what you were asking for. And maybe not know the answer. It doesn't matter anyway. It is to late for support, we needed that in 2004. The MDA pilots are taking care of ourselves and we will let the court decide against ALPA and the grievance process decide our longevity with the company.

 

[isvlives2]

Read what he said again - "many East pilots", not all by any means. On a different topic, I didn't thank Bebee was MEC chair as late as 2004, but that may be just bad memory.

Jim

It was Bill Pollack

 

[luvthe9]

isv, quite interesting posts. I feel for you guys, I really do, but have one question. Can you explain to me (west pilot) why the east mec certified their seniority list during the PID date without having you guys listed as active pilots? And why didn't the same east line pilots who come on here regularly stand up for you guys back then while this was going on? I searched this forum for that time period and didn't see anything as far as support goes for putting you on the mainline list- all that talk started after Nicolau. Two years passed between the PID and Nicolau award, why did the east line pilots start picking up your battle axe to use against us?




There were two ALPA seniority lists. MDA furloughed, MDA mainline. The ALPA MEC convinced us the arbitrator was given the list showing us as mainline pilots. Of course after the award that list disappeared and he used the wrong one. Many east pilots didn't care about us. I don't understand why either, I quess it's the "I've got mine attitude".

Give us a break. How do you think you got the money for the two lump sum distributions done per capita instead of larger amounts given to others? We all voted to give everybody the same amount. If you call that "I've got mine " you missed the mark. This was a big con job, and I doubt you knew yourself we were all getting scammed at the time.

 

[BoeingBoy]

It was Bill Pollack

Thanks, I thought that BeBee had the job at National by then.

One thing you mentioned a couple of posts back - the two seniority lists, I remembered that as happening in late 2005 after the change of control grievance was lost.

Jim

 

[CallawayGolf]

Yes I read it and perhaps didn't understand what you were asking for. And maybe not know the answer. It doesn't matter anyway. It is to late for support, we needed that in 2004. The MDA pilots are taking care of ourselves and we will let the court decide against ALPA and the grievance process decide our longevity with the company.

Thanks for the explanations. What I still haven't figured out is how/why the company was dismissed if it was legacy US management failing to actually create a separate wholly-owned sub. If these were truly mainline going under a different brand name, wouldn't MDA pilots be entitled to more than just a more favorable seniority position?

Also, if the NIC is dead as so many east posters claim, then the results of this wouldn’t change any pilot's DOH status anyway, right? DOH is the unchanging metric regardless of who was or was not on furlough or those who accepted a MDA position. So while "NIC is dead" is the mantra the MDA pilots don't appear to believe it. Of course if the NIC is alive and well, then the only way to gain from this misclassification would be to petition George Nicolau and ask him to reconsider your furlough vs. active status in his ratio integration model. This whole matter just doesn’t seem to add up, though I certainly know more now than I did before your first post.

 

[prechilill]

Yes I read it and perhaps didn't understand what you were asking for. And maybe not know the answer. It doesn't matter anyway. It is to late for support, we needed that in 2004. The MDA pilots are taking care of ourselves and we will let the court decide against ALPA and the grievance process decide our longevity with the company.

Are you guys needing/ taking donations?
Your posts are very enlightening and I appreciate your candor, it really helps some of us out west understand what happened and who sold you down the river. I don't think it was ALPA national but your own pilots who are now whoring out your tragedy to advance their own cause- totally sickening.

 

[isvlives2]

Thanks for the explanations. What I still haven't figured out is how/why the company was dismissed if it was legacy US management failing to actually create a separate wholly-owned sub. If these were truly mainline going under a different brand name, wouldn't MDA pilots be entitled to more than just a more favorable seniority position?

We dropped the company because council advised us they were going to hide under bankruptcy protection laws and would have been impossible financially to pursue. We are less than 300 pilots funding this out of our own pockets.

 

[Black Swan]

Thanks, I thought that BeBee had the job at National by then.

One thing you mentioned a couple of posts back - the two seniority lists, I remembered that as happening in late 2005 after the change of control grievance was lost.

Jim

I am well aware of who was running the MEC at the time. Pollock at the time was vice, and before was the legis. affairs guy. Actually did a pretty good job of it. I am saying Beebe totally ignored us. I certainly would have taken a little time to ask some questions rather than totally dismiss a pilot who showed up. Pollock did some massive damage himself. The "dear Dave" letter that gave a disability offset to a retired military pilot drawing a pension, the tie breaker on the pension dissolution and the MDA fiasco. Sorry west pilots, it wasn't just the Nic that led to all this acrimony. It was just one big happy event, one after the other.......

 

[Black Swan]

Thanks for the explanations. What I still haven't figured out is how/why the company was dismissed if it was legacy US management failing to actually create a separate wholly-owned sub. If these were truly mainline going under a different brand name, wouldn't MDA pilots be entitled to more than just a more favorable seniority position?

Also, if the NIC is dead as so many east posters claim, then the results of this wouldn’t change any pilot's DOH status anyway, right? DOH is the unchanging metric regardless of who was or was not on furlough or those who accepted a MDA position. So while "NIC is dead" is the mantra the MDA pilots don't appear to believe it. Of course if the NIC is alive and well, then the only way to gain from this misclassification would be to petition George Nicolau and ask him to reconsider your furlough vs. active status in his ratio integration model. This whole matter just doesn’t seem to add up, though I certainly know more now than I did before your first post.

Calloway, maybe this makes it clearer. How can you go after the company when they got the representative entity to green light it? If they conned ALPA Nat'l and the AAA MEC, then there would be a case. You have to remember,ALPA Nat'l & the AAA MEC knew about it because the company went to them when the FAA shut down the original plan of separate certificate. When they company then sought "relief" and ALPA & AAA MEC bought off on it, it now absolves the company.

 

[Black Swan]

We dropped the company because council advised us they were going to hide under bankruptcy protection laws and would have been impossible financially to pursue. We are less than 300 pilots funding this out of our own pockets.

You could no more bring suit against the company than could anyone sue for LOA 93. It had the gold housekeeping approval of your ALPA MEC.

 

[BoeingBoy]

BS,

I keep saying it but it doesn't seem to sink in - ALPA National considered the MDA pilots who had been furloughed from mainliine in 2002 as recalled to mainline. Not as working at MDA but recalled to AAA. If you want to blame National for anything, blame them for the amount of autonomy they give the MEC's. For example, I personally know of only one contract that National didn't accept after the pilots at a carrier ratified it. There could be others that I don't know of but I do only know of 1 myself.

Jim

 

[LSS]

You could no more bring suit against the company than could anyone sue for LOA 93. It had the gold housekeeping approval of your ALPA MEC.

Because these pilots were duped and shafted by not only the company but ALPA too. ALPA tried to hide what had happened with the list used for seniority integration, and ALPA wouldn't admit it, because they knew they would be sued... I also think the company could have been liable too, as they engaged in fraudulent practices in concert with ALPA, however as was stated, because of the BKs... US Airways got a "free pass" on a lot of bad stuff that happened in the East (including the termination of our DB plan)... and the plaintiffs in a number of lawsuits were forced to drop US Airways as a defendant because of it.

 

[isvlives2]

Because these pilots were duped and shafted by not only the company but ALPA too. ALPA tried to hide what had happened with the list used for seniority integration, and ALPA wouldn't admit it, because they knew they would be sued... I also think the company could have been liable too, as they engaged in fraudulent practices in concert with ALPA, however as was stated, because of the BKs... US Airways got a "free pass" on a lot of bad stuff that happened in the East (including the termination of our DB plan)... and the plaintiffs in a number of lawsuits were forced to drop US Airways as a defendant because of it.

Very well said LSS

 

[Metroyet]

Give us a break. How do you think you got the money for the two lump sum distributions done per capita instead of larger amounts given to others? We all voted to give everybody the same amount.

This was done to buy off the super junior East pilots to assist in the USAPA scam. This is going to be attempted again on the 7th when the "ad hoc" profit sharing committee has discovered that it's really in everybodies best interest to STEAL the profit sharing of the West to be redistributed to junior East pilots. This is an attempt to keep power consolidated. It sends the message: "see, we're all buddies now. Just keep pulling the USAPA line and we'll use our majority to all make up for our horrible career choices upon the backs of the West Pilots".

Personally I can't wait to watch the profit sharing debocle. Of course, none of my money is going to be stolen so I look on this with more amusement and wonder at the sheer, abject stupidity that is running this Fake Narrcasistic union.