US Pilots Labor Discussion

[mikey60]

I was being sarcastic. People on both sides pick and choose some of his little nuggets of bs to latch on to. Like my uncle told me about his time at United decades ago, "they told us a lot of things, except the truth."

Now go call in sick. 😀

EXCUSE ME... I realized that as I was hitting the button, I have corrected it. Even a Eastie makes a little mistake once in a while.

 

[cleardirect]

No one has answered my question yet.

Is the 190 arbitration still valid? Is the west still owed 1/3 of the 190's?

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Parker said this in the crew news and Kirby said that and its just not fair that a jr east pilot one number from furlough should be next to a west pilot one number from furlough. Its not fair its not fair its not fair Cry cry cry. Your Fear is beginning to stink up the joint, you reek of it!!!

AWA320

That was BREW NEWS you saw that, you have to go to the next channel for usairways! MM!

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Whether Silver hears the case or not, Parker already said in the last crew news (as best I recall) they were going to the Ninth. In fact, all roads lead to the Ninth eventually, and "eventually" could take a long, long time.

No court is going to tell a Labor union what they have to negotiate, and if they did it would not survive appeal.

No court is going to tell Management how and what to negotiate, much less give them a "get out of jail free" pass going into negotiations, and if they did it would not survive appeal. In fact, it is the Company that is sticking themselves out there by implying they have some sort of duty to honor internal union affairs. SCOTUS and the Ninth have historically said they have no business in internal union affairs.

No court is going to impose a condition, restriction, or contract on a Labor group without them having a vote. Heck, even in the bankruptcy they handed us the rope and made us hang ourselves. Nothing was imposed. If Parker chose to tie his wagon to Nic and Section 22, and go into a cooling off period, then it would be no different than him trying to take away (your) crew meals or half our pay. It’s a process with many twists and turns, and with few shortcuts provided by NMB…in fact the process can be endless, at least that is what one of the Judges implied during the oral arguments at the Ninth.

The company can do what they want in negotiations , and if they do so illegally (whatever that means) they can be sued.

The union can do what they want in negotiations, and if they stray from what is judged widely reasonable they can be sued (DFR) by their own members upon delivery of the ratified product.

Nobody gets a free pass from the Courts before they act. Nobody gets to sue before the knife is thrust (guess where I heard that!)

All these processes are slow as molasses. The only real thing (other than the dream of working for a company that thinks working with its employees is good business) that can change the timeline is current events. Something happens, or something is perceived as imminent that causes one side or the other to act in a way to speed the process.

It’s been said here a million times, but my upward movement, combined with our Scope language, makes me real comfortable just waiting this out. There is no upside to capitulation to Nic right now. I will just sit tight as my union continues to negotiate in good faith, continues to abide by its CBLs and use DOH with Conditions and Restrictions in Section 22 proposals, and plays out this process just as fast the government will allow. I have financially planned for a possible work action, and honestly hope it does not come to that. Maybe some unknown current event is “lurking.” I don’t really know.

Could I be richer in this job, happier, more satisfied, etc? ….you bet. But that is true in all aspects of life. I just moved from Reserve to Blockholding C/O. Nice raise, more per diem, a heck of decrease in commuting costs not having to sit reserve out of base. Based on current attrition in another 2 to 3 years I will be able to move to a Group 1 aircraft, and in another 4 or 5 to the 330. A much slower career path than I would have hoped for, but OK by me for now..yeah..OK.

Your outhouse lawyer superhero,

RR

RR, I see some of the legal nitnoid a bit differently than you do, but I understand and respect your sentiments. All this stuff is much more complex than a simple we're the good guys and you're the bad guys characterization. As a west pilot, I am likewise in no big hurry to capitulate to what usapa has in mind given a free hand. Fleet mins and such. And working for AWA flying a narrowbody was fine by me, and doing it for USAirways is fine by me.

One never knows what kind of kick in the butt either side could get in the meantime. Looks like status quo for quite awhile though.

 

[767jetz]

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20101201-711216.html So much for working it out! MM!

You do realize that the link you posted has to do with a dispute the CO pilots have with the company re-allocating 70 seat RJ's on their routes. A dispute in which the the UA pilots support the CO pilots 100%. So the part about "not working out" is more blowing smoke from your pie hole, as usual.

BTW, you never did admit being wrong about the profit sharing. There were indeed those claiming the goal was to screw the west out of their share. You asked me to post one. I did. You were wrong.

 

[nic4us]

Whether Silver hears the case or not, Parker already said in the last crew news (as best I recall) they were going to the Ninth. In fact, all roads lead to the Ninth eventually, and "eventually" could take a long, long time.

No court is going to tell a Labor union what they have to negotiate, and if they did it would not survive appeal.

No court is going to tell Management how and what to negotiate, much less give them a "get out of jail free" pass going into negotiations, and if they did it would not survive appeal. In fact, it is the Company that is sticking themselves out there by implying they have some sort of duty to honor internal union affairs. SCOTUS and the Ninth have historically said they have no business in internal union affairs.

No court is going to impose a condition, restriction, or contract on a Labor group without them having a vote. Heck, even in the bankruptcy they handed us the rope and made us hang ourselves. Nothing was imposed. If Parker chose to tie his wagon to Nic and Section 22, and go into a cooling off period, then it would be no different than him trying to take away (your) crew meals or half our pay. It’s a process with many twists and turns, and with few shortcuts provided by NMB…in fact the process can be endless, at least that is what one of the Judges implied during the oral arguments at the Ninth.

The company can do what they want in negotiations , and if they do so illegally (whatever that means) they can be sued.

The union can do what they want in negotiations, and if they stray from what is judged widely reasonable they can be sued (DFR) by their own members upon delivery of the ratified product.

Nobody gets a free pass from the Courts before they act. Nobody gets to sue before the knife is thrust (guess where I heard that!)

All these processes are slow as molasses. The only real thing (other than the dream of working for a company that thinks working with its employees is good business) that can change the timeline is current events. Something happens, or something is perceived as imminent that causes one side or the other to act in a way to speed the process.

It’s been said here a million times, but my upward movement, combined with our Scope language, makes me real comfortable just waiting this out. There is no upside to capitulation to Nic right now. I will just sit tight as my union continues to negotiate in good faith, continues to abide by its CBLs and use DOH with Conditions and Restrictions in Section 22 proposals, and plays out this process just as fast the government will allow. I have financially planned for a possible work action, and honestly hope it does not come to that. Maybe some unknown current event is “lurking.” I don’t really know.

Could I be richer in this job, happier, more satisfied, etc? ….you bet. But that is true in all aspects of life. I just moved from Reserve to Blockholding C/O. Nice raise, more per diem, a heck of decrease in commuting costs not having to sit reserve out of base. Based on current attrition in another 2 to 3 years I will be able to move to a Group 1 aircraft, and in another 4 or 5 to the 330. A much slower career path than I would have hoped for, but OK by me for now..yeah..OK.

Your outhouse lawyer superhero,

RR

I suggest you go look at other times courts have done all of the things you claim a court would never do.

Courts have told unions what they can and cannot negotiate.

Courts tell companies daily that they will honor their contracts, and set penalties for breaches.

A union cannot do as it pleases in negotiations, as you state, nor can a company allow malfeasance of which it is obviously aware.

On top of that, when a court imposes a condition or restriction, the one thing they are not going to do is ask your opinion if it is okay with you by letting you take a vote on their decision.


The little lawyer has some of you east posters brainwashed like your usapa hierarchy. You think usapa is going to have a vote that will overide a court decree? Well, vote no on a contract all you like, just make sure to submit your payments in a timely fashion.

 

[Ames]

...wasn't it some westie that said " you can't believe anything Parker or Kirby say"

It was Parker, himself, who said he often says thing that aren't true for effect. Watch the last PHX crew news.

 

[AWA320]

I suggest you go look at other times courts have done all of the things you claim a court would never do.

Courts have told unions what they can and cannot negotiate.

Courts tell companies daily that they will honor their contracts, and set penalties for breaches.

A union cannot do as it pleases in negotiations, as you state, nor can a company allow malfeasance of which it is obviously aware.

On top of that, when a court imposes a condition or restriction, the one thing they are not going to do is ask your opinion if it is okay with you by letting you take a vote on their decision.


The little lawyer has some of you east posters brainwashed like your usapa hierarchy. You think usapa is going to have a vote that will overide a court decree? Well, vote no on a contract all you like, just make sure to submit your payments in a timely fashion.

Its FEAR that's causing them to scurry around like roaches when the lights come on!!


AWA320

 

[Ames]

Hey ames..do you mind if I copy this post and "post" it in the john. Your quotes give me the inspiration I need from time to time. thx

Geez. Most guys take Playboys. Whatever floats your boat. Have at it.

 

[Ames]

Its FEAR that's causing them to scurry around like roaches when the lights come on!!


AWA320

Yes, and it sure is fun to watch.

 

[GorgeousGeorge]

What do they have to fear? The current case is going to get tossed, so a DFRII should be feared, when?, if? It looks like they are in the Catbird's seat.

 

[Reed Richards]

No one has answered my question yet.

Is the 190 arbitration still valid? Is the west still owed 1/3 of the 190's?

I sense you know the answer. I have not looked at that award in years. Just a stab...but I seem to remember the award being difficult to cash without a combined operation (and that is not a dig or anything...that is just what I remember.)

Maybe someone can dig up a copy of the award and post a link, might make for some meaningful discussion. Does the sale of almost half the aircraft change the award? Would West pilots coming off furlough to the East be affected by the award? I don't really know.

RR

 

[nic4us]

I sense you know the answer. I have not looked at that award in years. Just a stab...but I seem to remember the award being difficult to cash without a combined operation (and that is not a dig or anything...that is just what I remember.)

Maybe someone can dig up a copy of the award and post a link, might make for some meaningful discussion. Does the sale of almost half the aircraft change the award? Would West pilots coming off furlough to the East be affected by the award? I don't really know.

RR

Holy elevators Batman, RR has struck a significant little twist.

Once West pilots are recalled to the east as per the TA, could they then excercise terms in the 190 grievence and capture Captain seats?

Need to read that arbitration again I guess.

 

[sumadarson]

Its FEAR that's causing them to scurry around like roaches when the lights come on!!


AWA320

A very relaxed atmosphere observed on the east side. Nic is on a shelf forever. My you must of celebrated (prematurely) after the Nicolau award thinking you were moving on up to the east side of the airline.

AWA 320' premature dream of moving to the east side, May 2007

 

[Bear96]

Its a negotiation. Nothing is settled until it is settled.

But if one side decides it does not like how it is "settled," can't it just dump its representative and make everyone start over until it gets the result it wants?