US Pilots Labor Discussion

[prechilill]

I am responding to a posters post. Let them handle it, you trying to do this for them is frankly an insult to them. I am not asking you.

No, by all means, answer aqua's question... I'm dying to read it. 😀

 

[No Land Green]

Ok you can not make this claim and state that a west pilot has not paid his dues simply because his airline was not furloughing and yours was when the two merged. The furloughed pilot ws given no choice he was just placed on unemployement. No one is using them as stepping stones but the fact of the matter is they did not bring a job with them and aasking one who did to give up is seat is just wrong.

AWA320

320,

The West did furlough Pilots, before this latest one right? My neighbor was hired at AWA in 2000 and was furloughed for a while. Can you tell me how long that was and when?

 

[cleardirect]

Page 14 of the NIC Award........West Proposal section. Did you guys make a mistake?

No Phil wasn't "phibbing" he stated the same number. It's in the NIC award too.

A proposal. That is not what happened.

So there are not 959 active east pilots stapled.

 

[AWA320]

*******************************************************8
give me one example where furloughed pilots with as many years of longevity were treated with such contempt. Especially when the attrition that is just starting to take place takes that furloughed pilot to a CPT in short order...

The arbitrator got it wrong, plain and simple... That is why this is so contentious, because it's all so outrageous!

Not true, you only get to that so called attrition as a by product of the merger. Absent the merger and there is no attrition based on the direction in which AAA was headed at that time. I completely understand the feelings however there is always a fall guy and that fall guy though distasteful is always the furloughed. What you can not do is use the merger to leap to a position you would not have had on your own list. Thats what Nic did! He placed me/us in a positon that was within a few numbers of where we all were the day prior to the merger announcement with the exception of our top lister on the west. Those are the ones who really got screwed!!

AWA320

 

[No Land Green]

Well, Piedmont and AMR made a heck of a lot more money than Empire and TWA, respectively. So, both of those travesties were in fact warranted, because Piedmont and AMR made more money? Correct?

nope.. not sure where this is going. but yeah I support DOH/LOS with C&R's if that is what you are trying to get at.

 

[aquagreen73s]

nope.. not sure where this is going. but yeah I support DOH/LOS with C&R's if that is what you are trying to get at.

Even though DOH with C&Rs is a product of the same process that yielded Piedmont/Empire and AMR/TWA?

 

[AWA320]

Your post,

"No sir a seniority number is a far cry different than a job!"

AWA320


My question.
Your legal "experts" are doing you no favor. Look at the route map below, what is the fulcrum of your argument, sir?

You are trying to answer boeing boys question, trying to avoid the one I asked you. I am not going to play that BS game. Do not ask me a question when I ask you one, that is evasive.

What you brought to the merger

Ok that is not my argement and again it has no bearing on the issue of today Nos! How does showing me a route map justify usapa's actions??? A furloughed pilot does not bring a job to the merger only a furlough number. I know it sucks and I agree with that but its the truth. Dave Odell was employed and flying the line when the merger happened while AAA had 40% of its pilot on furlough.


AWA320

 

[No Land Green]

A proposal. That is not what happened.

So there are not 959 active east pilots stapled.

Clear, I keep seeing "staple 85%", "staple 90%" of the West yada yada yada. NO DOH does NOT do that!!!!

Many people DO NOT know what the West Proposal was, that is what I'm putting out there. The West proposal was a "staple" job in the pure sense.

My source is valid NIC "Opinion and Award"

 

[AWA320]

Yeah, when you look at which side of the Mississippi is more profitable, I think we should, but I think I already know the answer. We carry more checked bags on the East LMAO!!!!!!!

Now I have said this before its only as a direct result of the merger. If the east were profitable prior to the merger I can almost assure you we would not be having this conversation. What the airline is today in 2010 is not what it was in 2005

AWA320

 

[No Land Green]

Even though DOH with C&Rs is a product of the same process that yielded Piedmont/Empire and AMR/TWA?

Well can't help you there, because I wasn't on the ALPA/APA merger committee's. Another reason why I voted ALPA off the property.

 

[sumadarson]

How does showing me a route map justify usapa's actions??? A furloughed pilot does not bring a job to the merger only a furlough number. I know it sucks and I agree with that but its the truth. Dave Odell was employed and flying the line when the merger happened while AAA had 40% of its pilot on furlough.


AWA320

You brought DUI Doug to the merger, name what else your contribution was.

What america west has left, what they brought

 

[No Land Green]

Now I have said this before its only as a direct result of the merger. If the east were profitable prior to the merger I can almost assure you we would not be having this conversation. What the airline is today in 2010 is not what it was in 2005

AWA320

Are you implying that AWA was always profitable prior to the merger?

Now your last statement I totally agree with, I will only add that one can put any dates they want in both your fields above and that statement will be true LOL

 

[aquagreen73s]

Well can't help you there, because I wasn't on the ALPA/APA merger committee's. Another reason why I voted ALPA off the property.

That's the beauty of the simplicity of our situation: you don't need to be anywhere to figure out what's going on. USAPA=AMR=Piedmont stapling.

But wait, the last two are ALPA. Or wait, Piedmont was ALPA and AMR was APA, so that makes USPAPA somehow "special"

Nobody outside the East buys your BS. Nobody.

Are you implying that AWA was always profitable prior to the merger?

$30 million in Q1 and Q2 of '05.

 

[Phoenix]

The time to compromise was during the arbitration. ...

So far the West has paid $2M to hold that opinion.

 

[No Land Green]

That's the beauty of the simplicity of our situation: you don't need to be anywhere to figure out what's going on. USAPA=AMR=Piedmont stapling.

But wait, the last two are ALPA. Or wait, Piedmont was ALPA and AMR was APA, so that makes USPAPA somehow "special"

Nobody outside the East buys your BS. Nobody.

$60 million in Q1 and Q2 of '05.

What's funny is that by comparing 2010 to 2005, 320 indirectly admits the airline is not the same. It's never the same.

Tell us about when AWA has furloughed in the past, please. No one want to answer that question. Everyone knows about the East Furloughs.

I guess we don't talk to the same people "outside the East". The people I talk to get it. But wait, you're right, they must be lying to me.


Well time to leave the "sandbox" for the night. This old man is getting tired. Have a good night!!