US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cleardirect]

Yes Clear. If we put all women junior to all men it would be a DFR won, the CBL be d.....d. Agreed.

That has nothing to do with majority or minority. DOH with Conditions and Restrictions makes the cut just fine, as you will soon learn. Even wtih the CBL "d.....d."

RR

Sure it matters. But what if you added C&R? Would that change anything? All the women are still junior but you gave them C&R.

Let's say not all women. How about 90% of the women are junior to all men? DFR? What about 80% of the women junior to all men?

Who gets to decide? From us it was a neutral third party. But you guys want to throw that out and decide for yourself what is fair. If you continue than it will be a judge or jury that decides what is fair. We have already seen what one jury did.

 

[cleardirect]

You took my bait, hook line and sinker. You have bad mouthed furloughed pilots from the East since the inception of your posts. I will quote you from past posts regarding this tomorrow.

This qualifies you, by far, as the hypocrite of the day sir.

Such a smart guy. Wow.

But you will find my "bad mouthing" as you call it, of the furloughed guys has been that you and east pilots want those returning furloughed pilots to come back senior to west captains.

You go find all the quotes you want.

 

[sumadarson]

And now we work more for less money.

Yep, we sure are smarter the those stupid West pilots.

america west pilots pay history

 

[sumadarson]

Such a smart guy. Wow.

But you will find my "bad mouthing" as you call it, of the furloughed guys has been that you and east pilots want those returning furloughed pilots to come back senior to west captains.

You go find all the quotes you want.

Your quote sir; "Besides are you saying it is a bad thing returning from furlough? You say it like an insult."

Is this your jungle call sir, YOU WERE MORE FURLOUGHED THAN I WAS.

Then you go on to say "of the furloughed guys has been that you and east pilots want those returning furloughed pilots to come back senior to west captains."

Good night.

 

[Metroyet]

. DOH with Conditions and Restrictions makes the cut just fine, as you will soon learn. Even wtih the CBL "d.....d."

RR

Then why Did a Jury Convict your fake union of a DFR? DOH "makes the cut just fine" in your own demented head....unfortunately for you, reality works differently. That's been made obvious....to the sane among us that is. Final and Binding is exactly that. Your unemployed, hopeless pilots don't get to replace line holding Captains at Airlines they never even worked for. That wasn't ever, (even remotely) the deal.

Another 9-11 scenario would do just that...Which by no means is a mistake You guys are outside the Law every step of the way, all you have to do is provide the ripeness, The West will Provide the suppository.

 

[LSS]

Then why Did a Jury Convict your fake union of a DFR? DOH "makes the cut just fine" in your own demented head....unfortunately for you, reality works differently. That's been made obvious....to the sane among us that is. Final and Binding is exactly that. Your unemployed, hopeless pilots don't get to replace line holding Captains at Airlines they never even worked for. That wasn't ever, (even remotely) the deal.

Another 9-11 scenario would do just that...Which by no means is a mistake You guys are outside the Law every step of the way, all you have to do is provide the ripeness, The West will Provide the suppository.

DUH... Met... ... Judge Wake controlled everything in that courtroom and his jurisprudence was terribly flawed... thus the 9th's ruling of DISMISSAL... since it was dismissed... it technically never happened and you start out with a clean slate in any future, most certainly coming from youse guys, DFR. If Wake couldn't even recognize the simple concept of "ripeness", there is no doubt that his total oversight and direction of this process was flawed.

 

[AWA320]

DUH... Met... ... Judge Wake controlled everything in that courtroom and his jurisprudence was terribly flawed... thus the 9th's ruling of DISMISSAL... since it was dismissed... it technically never happened and you start out with a clean slate in any future, most certainly coming from youse guys, DFR. If Wake couldn't even recognize the simple concept of "ripeness", there is no doubt that his total oversight and direction of this process was flawed.

DFR2/3/4 should not even be of a concern at this point as you have much bigger hurrdles to clear than that. None of you have been able to answer how you get around the DJ other than to hope its dismissed which by way still doesnt get you to your dream world. What usapa needs in that is a clear cut answer of you dont have to honor the arbitration and usapa is free to impose what it wishes upon the west. Further usapa needs the court to indemnify LCC against lawsuits from the west.

Whew you got some tough road ahead with the DJ then there is the matter of the Supreme Court as well. This is gonna be some real interesting next few months but in the end you know what the result will be and you are fooling yourself to think otherwise. Its NIC all day and night and the longer you stall the more people in the west will come and take from the east.

AWA320

 

[AWA320]

america west pilots pay history

Ok I cant follow this graph at all and I doubt anyone other than those at MIT can. Its BS anyway because in no year did a pilot of Hawaiian make 1.8million. Use the contract if you want to make a point but you wont because LOA 93 is a gut check isnt it? That wasnt in your graph!!

AWA320

 

[BoeingBoy]

Ok I cant follow this graph at all and I doubt anyone other than those at MIT can.

It's relatively simple but like most things Nos posts the hard part is interpreting the data presented - something Nos never does since that would give the true picture.

Don't know if you where here right after the merger but the East posters were gloating about their lower pay and how the growth would be in the east because of that - completely the opposite of what Nos is desperate to point out.

Jim

 

[Reed Richards]

Sure it matters. But what if you added C&R? Would that change anything? All the women are still junior but you gave them C&R.

Let's say not all women. How about 90% of the women are junior to all men? DFR? What about 80% of the women junior to all men?

Who gets to decide? From us it was a neutral third party. But you guys want to throw that out and decide for yourself what is fair. If you continue than it will be a judge or jury that decides what is fair. We have already seen what one jury did.

I hear you about the "neutral third party." But I disagree about there being any neutrality involved or anything even approaching fairness..here we be almost 4 years later. You and I can agree to disagree on that one.

But once more, you cannot use conditions and restrictions to justify using race, creed, color, sex, etc to define a list in any fraction. That is the true beauty of DOH..it is blind to those issues.

As to a jury hearing a case involving DOH, it is my contention a member ratified DOH list with C & Rs will never even make it to a jury or bench. And you know what my opinion is worth!

Have a good morning,

RR

 

[767jetz]

No, I am senior to all you pukes no matter how you work it out, I just want all of you below all of us. Now, go back to your Marvel and get back into you fantasy.

Nothing but internet bravado, since your place on the list is out of your hands and in the hands of the courts. But if there are some who actually believe such an outcome is obtainable, you are setting yourselves up for a big disappointment. The staple job aspiration is what got everyone into this impasse.

 

[luvthe9]

Nothing but internet bravado, since your place on the list is out of your hands and in the hands of the courts. But if there are some who actually believe such an outcome is obtainable, you are setting yourselves up for a big disappointment. The staple job aspiration is what got everyone into this impasse.

DOH is not a staple job. Sorry!!

 

[767jetz]

Fact is, DOH with fences and restrictions holds up just fine in our legal system, and will preempt your unquestionably ripe attempt at DFR II.

RR

I disagree with your conclusion and your premise that it is a fact. An unquestionably ripe DFR suit has little to do with whether or not your list is fair or not, in the eyes of the majority. It is about whether or not obtaining that outcome was done while fairly representing the desire and interests of the west. It is a duty to represent, not a duty to obtain an outcome that one side believes is fair. The ends does not justify the means. Negotiating and then submitting to arbitration what can not be agreed upon through negotiation is a fair process that takes the needs of both sides into consideration, even if the outcome is not the desired one. Forcing an outcome using majority status is not. So if even one former west pilot is disadvantaged more than the Nic list would have, a DFR suit can and will be filed. DOH with C&R's can therefore not preempt a DFR suit. At that point, the success or failure of the suit will rest on the facts and the jury. It is there that USAPA (and the company) will have a very difficult time proving they did not violate their duty of fair representation, since the actual list will not be on trial. Only the methods and tactics used to arrive there.

 

[cleardirect]

DOH is not a staple job. Sorry!!

Keep telling yourself that. But the facts do not support your opinion.

I have posted the numbers but you refuse to acknowledge reality.

If DOH is not a staple why the fake C&R?

 

[767jetz]

DOH is not a staple job. Sorry!!

The quote I was responding to was this...


"I just want all of you below all of us."

That is most certainly aspiring to do a staple job.