US Pilots Labor Discussion

[sumadarson]

Please everyone, do everything you can to keep this ship afloat, you management leaders families depend on it.

If there is a merger or change of control, they need you.

america west executive contract

 

[mrbreeze]

What I have learned since the ACQUISITION is that a flawed union was founded that divided the pilot group. The company knows USAPA is weak, has no bargaining power and the company thanks Bradford everyday for busting our union. You can't fix stupid and I have doubts about reform school for USAPA.

I am happy to see that you admit that your stupidity can't be fixed.....just too bad it isn't painful!

USAPA was like a birth...it was in the womb long before the birth...ALPA being voted out.

This whole mess is tied up in a big knot.....quit blaming USAPA and calling them weak when everyone's hands are tied with the legal BS.

 

[Metroyet]

I am happy to see that you admit that your stupidity can't be fixed.....just too bad it isn't painful!

USAPA was like a birth...it was in the womb long before the birth...ALPA being voted out.

This whole mess is tied up in a big knot.....quit blaming USAPA and calling them weak when everyone's hands are tied with the legal BS.

USCABA emerged out of a different lower orifice.

 

[mrbreeze]

USCABA emerged out of a different lower orifice.

Another briliant post, Metroyet!

At least you're entertaining enough that no one takes your posts seriously.

 

[mrbreeze]

Please everyone, do everything you can to keep this ship afloat, you management leaders families depend on it.

If there is a merger or change of control, they need you.

america west executive contract

I like this part...you know- the ethics stuff:

1.8 “Misconduct” means one or more of the following:
(a) the willful and continued failure by Executive to perform his or her duties (other than any such failure resulting from Executive’s incapacity due to physical or mental illness) after written notice of such failure has been given to Executive by the Company and Executive has had a reasonable period (but not more than fifteen (15) days) after receipt of such notice to correct such failure;
(B) the unlawful or willful commission by Executive of any act that is dishonest and demonstrably injurious to Group, US Airways or any direct or indirect subsidiary of Group (monetarily or otherwise) in any material respect;
(c) the conviction of, or plea of guilty or nolo contendere to, a felony offense by Executive;
(d) habitual drug or alcohol abuse that impairs Executive’s ability to perform the essential duties of his position or the use of illegal drugs on the Company’s premises;

 

[SparrowHawk]

Quick and sincere question.

Not counting furloughed how many years does the most junior pilot have with the company?

Also what would be their hourly rate? Roughly

 

[flyinawa]

I am happy to see that you admit that your stupidity can't be fixed.....just too bad it isn't painful!

USAPA was like a birth...it was in the womb long before the birth...ALPA being voted out.

This whole mess is tied up in a big knot.....quit blaming USAPA and calling them weak when everyone's hands are tied with the legal BS.

Nobody out East seemed to have any heart burn with ALPA merger policy while they were being fed the party line of obvious success by their East reps. Once you didn't get what you thought you were entitled to (DOH), then obviously the whole process was flawed from the onset. Please spare us the sob story and the violins. Had Nic determined un-fenced DOH was in fact, the gold standard, you guys would have been carrying Prater around Herdon on your shoulders and furloughed pilots would have been house hunting in PHX. 🙄

 

[SparrowHawk]

Nobody out East seemed to have any heart burn with ALPA merger policy while they were being fed the party line of obvious success by their East reps. Once you didn't get what you thought you were entitled to (DOH), then obviously the whole process was flawed from the onset. Please spare us the sob story and the violins. Had Nic determined un-fenced DOH was in fact, the gold standard, you guys would have been carrying Prater around Herdon on your shoulders and furloughed pilots would have been house hunting in PHX. 🙄

Having been around these boards since 2001, I can say with certainty that with some there was no love lost when it came to ALPA. This was especially true during BK1, less so with BK2.

There was a significant number of pilots who wanted out of ALPA at almost any cost. Whether this almost blind hatred of ALPA colored their views to the point where the situation rests now I couldn't hazard a guess.

IIRC there were several attempts to oust ALPA prior & during BK1. The efforts failed up until the Nic award which apparently galvanized a majority to rid themselves of ALPA at any cost.

Wise choice? No idea! What i do know is everyone is paying a very steep price in hard dollar and emotional terms. There is a way out, I just don't know what it is as I don't know nearly enough about the QOL issues and Seniority in general as it applies to pilots.

On one hand DOH seems like a quick and easy way to integrate the 2 groups. I get hired on Monday and you get hired on Tuesday, I'm ahead of you. Period.

Not picking sides here but what I've read on Nic makes it seem flawed, It appears to pick winners and losers.

I just don't like to see good people screwed at work and right now EVERYONE of you is screwed! My God there are prostitutes that have been screwed less.

IMO there is a way out. There's always a way out and the problem now is one of testosterone poisoning. Everyone is bellowing and posturing and so far all that's happened is a few lawyers are a bit richer for their efforts. This is like the trench warfare of WWI, Both sides dug into fixed positions with precious little ground gained by either side.

This situation calls for bold vision and leadership, not kingdom building and Machiavellian intrigue and I'll bet that the posters here know exactly where the common ground is. Problem is that those at the top in USAPA have their own personal agendas and as a result 5,000 or so pilot careers hang in the balance. It's not right.

 

[mrbreeze]

Nobody out East seemed to have any heart burn with ALPA merger policy while they were being fed the party line of obvious success by their East reps. Once you didn't get what you thought you were entitled to (DOH), then obviously the whole process was flawed from the onset. Please spare us the sob story and the violins. Had Nic determined un-fenced DOH was in fact, the gold standard, you guys would have been carrying Prater around Herdon on your shoulders and furloughed pilots would have been house hunting in PHX. 🙄

Oops...you forgot to add that that is your opinion....since you weren't there.

Honestly, the truth is that many of us had quit paying ALPA dues with the loss of our pensions, after no support, whatsoever, from ALPA National throughout our problems. With Delta and United being the majority at ALPA Natl and the whole industry hurting, they turned their backs on us, hoping that we would just go away, which would help the bottom lines at their companies. But we fooled them by voting them out eventually and giving up $8 billion in wages to not go away. Some brothers, eh?

Our local ALPA MEC was grasping anything they could to hang on to their positions and try to find some kind of answer, along with major feuds going on within the MEC....but the train had already left the station...months before. Most of what was transmitted by the MEC was their own desparate BS, not what the pilot group was thinking. The NIC was just where we finally found the true voice of the pilot group.

I personally had quit paying ALPA dues 9 months before NIC came out and never agreed to anything that ALPA had to offer after they turned their backs on us....including the flawed binding arbritraion.

You guys are quick to talk about being thrown under the bus.....that is exactly what ALPA did to us. That is why we are so adamant to fight over this....let the house burn for all we care!

 

[prechilill]

but what I've read on Nic makes it seem flawed, It appears to pick winners and losers.

I just don't like to see good people screwed at work

I figured your motivations would eventually make themselves known as to your sudden "interest" in USAPA's mission around here on this pilot thread.

 

[luvthe9]

NO Skippy Doug isn't the problem. The problem is every east pilot that prefers to allow Cleary to keep the pilot group divided so that they cannot mount any unified defense against Doug.

So when you see west pilots looking right through you with disdain, it is because you are a willing accomplice of management.

Proud of yourself yet?

"Looking through you with disdain?" Excuse me, but isn't it your group that had no benefits and pension, and helped all the Lorenzo s of the world model the new order after you? Well, it finally happened. You are very familiar with that look of disdain, as it was cast to your group for years. You have brought everyone else down also. Congratulations. Cast your warring glances inward. That is the place they belong.

 

[CactusPilot1]

Oops...you forgot to add that that is your opinion....since you weren't there.

Honestly, the truth is that many of us had quit paying ALPA dues with the loss of our pensions, after no support, whatsoever, from ALPA National throughout our problems. With Delta and United being the majority at ALPA Natl and the whole industry hurting, they turned their backs on us, hoping that we would just go away, which would help the bottom lines at their companies. But we fooled them by voting them out eventually and giving up $8 billion in wages to not go away. Some brothers, eh?

Our local ALPA MEC was grasping anything they could to hang on to their positions and try to find some kind of answer, along with major feuds going on within the MEC....but the train had already left the station...months before. Most of what was transmitted by the MEC was their own desparate BS, not what the pilot group was thinking. The NIC was just where we finally found the true voice of the pilot group.

I personally had quit paying ALPA dues 9 months before NIC came out and never agreed to anything that ALPA had to offer after they turned their backs on us....including the flawed binding arbritraion.

You guys are quick to talk about being thrown under the bus.....that is exactly what ALPA did to us. That is why we are so adamant to fight over this....let the house burn for all we care!

Are you saying it is OK not to pay a union when you feel they have not represented your interests? Why is OK for you to stop paying dues but you try to get pilots fired for not paying dues to USAPA? You should put start wearing a neon lanyard that says "hypocrite." I know at least a third of the pilot group would like to take a 9-month dues holiday. I guess your post gives us the green to do just that, right?

 

[Pi brat]

I had to start over and wanted an airline that had growth potential. We went from hiring and upgrades to silch after 2005. Next thing we get is furloughs. You get recalls. I work with East pilots over here that saw no future over there and bailed out. Then Us Air lands on their heads again. So don't tell us over here we got some kind of lotto ticket when we got the bill. I get a monthly bill to prop up someone else's career expectations at the expense of mine.

So are you saying you did pick AWA over SWA? Are you saying that AWA's growth during your time period outran SWA's? Yeah, that's the ticket!

Our TA provided for separate ops, so what each side delivered, is what each side got. The east has shrunk more than the west since May 5, 2005, but still upgraded, recalled and hired pilots mostly because of attrition. The west had downgraded and furloughed pilots because they didn't have the attrition to outrun their shrinkage like we did. Anyone with half a brain knows that was coming for the west merger or not, and the guys running the thing say it would have been worse absent the merger. This extended separate ops period has shown you that what you thought you career would be like was wrong. You don't really believe AWA could have survived the period since 2005 unscathed do you?

The east pilots that bailed on US to go to AWA made a bad choice. I can see why they would be angry with THEIR decision, but it shouldn't make them mad at us. They gambled/invested and lost.

 

[Pi brat]

Once you didn't get what you thought you were entitled to (DOH), then obviously the whole process was flawed from the onset.

B.S. Another LIE from your leaders, but hey, if it keeps you sending in the checks what do they care about the truth?

A lot of us knew the process was flawed, just as I know a lot of US government policies are flawed but I can't change. Do you remember that we merged with the Shuttle and DOH wasn't even our position? How about the near merger with UA? You think ALPA merger policy ever came up?

WE WERE NOT PROMISED DOH IN THIS MERGER! If you won't learn the truth at least stop spreading the lies. :angry:

 

[prechilill]

B.S. Another LIE from your leaders, but hey, if it keeps you sending in the checks what do they care about the truth?

A lot of us knew the process was flawed, just as I know a lot of US government policies are flawed but I can't change. Do you remember that we merged with the Shuttle and DOH wasn't even our position? How about the near merger with UA? You think ALPA merger policy ever came up?

WE WERE NOT PROMISED DOH IN THIS MERGER! If you won't learn the truth at least stop spreading the lies. :angry:

The center of the universe has just been discovered...